Best / Worst - Rate Weapons and Vehicles

Neurotoxin · 2012-07-04, 04:52 PM

ES gear isn't all equivalent. Some items are decidedly better than others, in functionality or damage output or even usability. Instead of continuing to have debates like the MCG / JH / Lasher one that we've got going.

Don't spend too much time debating other people's ratings, instead provide your own ratings and

Obviously this is all a matter of personal preference. Here's a few examples:

Deliverer Variants:
#1 - Thunderer - Powerful, only needs 3 to operate, great range and accuracy.
#2 - Raider - Able to reliably hit aircraft, high RoF helps to compensate for rough accuracy-ruining terrain, able to spot and attack more targets, and gives all passengers something to do in transit.
#3 - Aurora - Powerful but poor accuracy, secondary fire can spray an area causing heavy damage, only needs 3 to operate.

AI MAX:
#1 - Quasar - Scales walls, great for towers top-floor base objectives, can traverse underwater safely, instant AV mode adds versatility
#2 - Scattercannon - Rapidly kills infantry so new targets can be acquired rapidly, shield helps improve durability
#3 - Dual Cycler - linked dual fire reduces close-range accuracy, bolt-down can be very hazardous

Assault Buggy:
Tied #1 - Thresher - Powerful anti-infantry weapon, fastest AB of the three, hovercraft strafing and floating over water. Exceptional LLU transport (but vulnerable to aircraft).
Tied #1 - Marauder - Reliably hit aircraft (machinegun), able to transport two additional passengers instead of just one, arcing mortar shot gets over walls and cover effectively.
#3 - Enforcer - Powerful straight-firing rockets, only requires 2 to operate, able to do fair damage against distant vehicles

Remember, don't argue and debate too much, instead post your listings. I doubt everyone agrees with me on my ratings, but this isn't about me, its about what everyone thinks of the stuff. Debating is pointless now anyway, nothing is gonna be changed in PS1 any time soon except maybe the monthly subscription will go down.

Figment · 2012-07-05, 06:04 AM

I would suggest complementing the lists with Common Pool items, because then it's even clearer if something is lacking.

cryosin · 2012-07-05, 07:05 AM

HA
1 - Jackhammer: Average players face roll, great players are unstoppable.
2 - MCG: Not too far behind the JH, but close quarters JH is overall better.
3 - Lasher: I've said it before and i'll say it again, it's the best indoor weapon for VS but far worse than the other three.

AV
1 - Phoenix: Hiding behind a tree and shooting a powerful rocket... ya its balanced... or something.
2 - Lancer: Very powerful in skilled hands. The range really makes this weapon shine.
3 - Striker: It's very good, but not as good as the other two. Still a very potent weapon though.

Tanks
1 - Magrider: Even though it's terrible against infantry, the Magrider is simply a powerhouse when piloted by skilled players.
2 - Prowler: Very close to the Mag. A fully manned prowler is a force to be reckoned with.
3 - Vanguard: Although the vanguard just mows down infantry, it doesn't feel as intimidating as the other two. Still a great tank though.

AV MAX
1 - VS Comet MAX: King of the AV MAX's. You moon bounce around, lay dots on foes and 4 shot other MAX's. My fav. MAX over-all.
2 - TR Pounder: Nothing holds a corridor down like a pounder MAX. I've seen these decimate vehicles as well.
3 - NC Rocket MAX: An NC weapon that requires aiming and skill? This cannot be! This MAX is great, but since NC are so used to running around ka-skilling everything in sight, actually aiming and leading in with rockets is far too hard for them.

AI MAX
1 - Ka-skill max(Scatmax): You walk into a room and press your mouse 1 button and everything dies. I guess that's balanced, or something.
2 - TR Dual Chainguns MAX: Solid AI MAX. Great ROF and can easily land a few kills.
3 - VS Quasar MAX: Okay, so... the TTK on this MAX is so bad that its hard to believe its an AI MAX. It can fly, except your COF(cone of fire) is all over the place when doing so. Don't get me wrong, its still a super scary AI MAX, but its definitely not as powerful as the other two.

Medium Assault
- I actually feel thie Medium assaults are very well balanced. I love fighting on Oshur, since it feels as if I'm playing a more balanced game. Too bad the other empire's don't like abandoning their overpowered HA's.
1 - Pulsar: I've grown to love it. Its got a nice 5 shot burst before its COF gets too bad and you can use it on the move very well. Great medium range/assault weapon.
2 - Cycler: Its like a mini-mini chain gun! You just run like a madman and spray. Basically an overpowered suppressor if you ask me. I love the reload sound too for some reason.
3 - Gauss Rifle: When crouched, the gauss rifle just melts people. However it's not the best on the move weapon. It still feels very finely tuned with the other HA's though. I think the Gauss rifle is the worst close up, but the best far away.

Medium Assaults are really down to the wire. They can all be interchangeable too depending on the situation.

jakaul · 2012-07-06, 11:26 AM

AI MAX
Scat
Falcon
Quasar
DC (above quasar with overdrive active)

jakaul · 2012-07-07, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

In defense of the Quasar. This max is best for SURPRISE you're dead fun times.

For example;

3 enemy drop on your tower. You feel vulnerable. Their SOP: boomer stairs, decis at ready. If you a scatmax or cycler, going up those stairs is near suicidal.

Quasar.. we fly high so high BAAALLIN. You don't go up stairs, 1) go outside, 2) fly to the top, 3) shoot 'em in the back like a boss!

One of them will have audio alert...

Kalbuth · 2012-07-10, 09:04 AM

Point being : DO NOT CREW YOUR PROWLERS WITH 3 PEOPLE. Why do you do it?
Your calculations are theorical based on a scenario which shouldn't happen.
Don't crew your prowlers with 3, but 2 people, redo your calculation, realise the 2 crew Prowler still outdammage any other tank, and you have a winner, bare the shitty handling of the beast which simply kills him (and this is why I rate magrider higher)

Stop throwing at me your 3 vs 2 comparisons, they are meaningless in case of a prowler, because in 2 vs 2 scenario (without 2nd gunner), the prowler is still better. So use a real world scenario, ie 2 crew prowler, and redo the comparison.
They are true, though, when talking about TR ES buggy or ES Deli variant, for which the crew vs damage ratio is not favoring them at all, because these vehicles don't have enough damage when only crewed with 2 (or 3 for Deli variant comparison) people.

Saying you are theorically outdamaged per crew is meaningless if you have also a scenario where you outdamage others per crew. Use the correct scenario to your advantage. Ie : put 2 people in your tanks, AA protection with a true AA SG. Case solved.

Leet · 2012-07-04, 08:27 PM

HA
1. Jackhammer - Derp
2. MCG - Versatility
3. Lasher - Still needs slight tweaking but can do alright if used as a JH.

Rifle
1. Pulsar - Great weapon after the buff.
2. Gauss - Has been a great weapon for a while. First place is interchangeable between the Pulsar and Gauss.
3. Cycler - Is inferior to the Gauss and Pulsar in every way. Terrible weapon.

AV
1. Lancer - Solid
2. Phoneix - Versatile
3. Striker - Just bad.

AI Max
1. Scat - A jackhammer with range customization welded onto a Max unit, need I say more?
2. DC - It's a beast with the overdrive.
3. Quasar - Jumpjets can make it good if you can get a good vertical 'warp' going.

AV Max
1. Comet - Good damage + jumpjets make it a beast
2. Pounder - Tempted to put Falcon above it but its overdrive help a lot. Without them it's pretty situational and vulnerable.
3. Falcon - Can't quite dish out insane amounts of damage like a Pounder can versus vehicles. Still solid overall.

AA Max
1. Starfire - Easily the best against aircraft. Its jumpjets make it the king of AA Max's. If you use trees and other things to stand on, you're nearly impossible to kill 1v1 unless you're mentally handicapped.
2. Burster - Situational, but if you find a good spot you can absolutely decimate aircraft. Capacitors add an extra umph if you can't lockdown.
3. Sparrow - Pretty bad compared to the other AA Max's. I think the devs purposely made it junk to try and trick people into thinking they weren't biased towards NC

Vehicles
1. Magrider - Direct LOS shooting; great AA capabilities due to that.
- Can also avoid bridge choke points
2. Vanguard - Hits hard, isn't fat, and doesn't require a third gunner.
3. Prowler - Sports all of the Vanguard's qualities, even the negative ones.

Vehicles
1.Thunderer - Beast
2. Raider - Pretty good; requires 4 gunners
3. Aurora - Amazing at camping doors

Vehicles
1. Maurader - Good overall, its chaingun helps it have some sort of AA.
2. Enforcer - Heavy damage
3. Thresher - Good, its slow projectile speed is its biggest disadvantage.

Wahooo · 2012-07-04, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Leet

HA
1. Jackhammer - Derp
2. MCG - Versatility
3. Lasher - Still needs slight tweaking but can do alright if used as a JH.

Rifle
1. Pulsar - Great weapon after the buff.
2. Gauss - Has been a great weapon for a while. First place is interchangeable between the Pulsar and Gauss.
3. Cycler - Is inferior to the Gauss and Pulsar in every way. Terrible weapon.

AV
1. Lancer - Solid
2. Phoneix - Versatile
3. Striker - Just bad.

AI Max
1. Scat - A jackhammer with range customization welded onto a Max unit, need I say more?
2. DC - It's a beast with the overdrive.
3. Quasar - Jumpjets can make it good if you can get a good vertical 'warp' going.

AV Max
1. Comet - Good damage + jumpjets make it a beast
2. Pounder - Tempted to put Falcon above it but its overdrive help a lot. Without them it's pretty situational and vulnerable.
3. Falcon - Can't quite dish out insane amounts of damage like a Pounder can versus vehicles. Still solid overall.

AA Max
1. Starfire - Easily the best against aircraft. Its jumpjets make it the king of AA Max's. If you use trees and other things to stand on, you're nearly impossible to kill 1v1 unless you're mentally handicapped.
2. Burster - Situational, but if you find a good spot you can absolutely decimate aircraft. Capacitors add an extra umph if you can't lockdown.
3. Sparrow - Pretty bad compared to the other AA Max's. I think the devs purposely made it junk to try and trick people into thinking they weren't biased towards NC

Vehicles
1. Magrider - Direct LOS shooting; great AA capabilities due to that.
- Can also avoid bridge choke points
2. Vanguard - Hits hard, isn't fat, and doesn't require a third gunner.
3. Prowler - Sports all of the Vanguard's qualities, even the negative ones.

Vehicles
1.Thunderer - Beast
2. Raider - Pretty good; requires 4 gunners
3. Aurora - Amazing at camping doors

Vehicles
1. Maurader - Good overall, its chaingun helps it have some sort of AA.
2. Enforcer - Heavy damage
3. Thresher - Good, its slow projectile speed is its biggest disadvantage.

I second this. I agree with the rankings mostly and the comments, save for some situational differences.

AV maxes are tough due to their variables. Indoors on offense vs AI and max v. max pounder loses. BD defense and outdoors Pounder wins. Falcon is pretty mid-range in all situations and Comet is most versatile.

With the pops back up I've fallen back in love with the Burster. When the pops were weak it was just a death trap everywhere and the sparrow was great but with fights the size they are supposed to be hard not to sparrow is annoying, skilfires versatility makes it good and with CY defense the burster is awesome. As long as pheonixes are kept away.

Same with the defense on AI maxes DC is beast when able to lock down in a hallway and Quasar is silly when you can push a tower top down with several. But those two just flip flop, can't move a scat from top spot.

I wouldn't call the striker "just bad" in zerg numbers it can be fun but the range and breaking LOS by trees makes it meh.
Why anyone would use a suckler over a pwnisher boggles my mind.

Metalsheep · 2012-07-05, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

Why anyone would use a suckler over a pwnisher boggles my mind.

While the Cycler is horrible vs other MA, it does more damage, faster than the Pwnisher. It also carries more ammo. When burst fired, it will beat the Pwnisher handily. But agains the other MA at range its pretty crap.

However, the Cycler has the about the same rate of fire as an MCG, and does the same bullet damage per hit as an MCG, though its CoF blooms wider. In CQB, the Cycler is actually a fearsome weapon most dismiss due to its shoddy ranged performance. Three days ago i rolled in a NC tower outside Ghannon on Hossin, had my Cycler cause i was zerging. I picked up 8 kills in a row without losing momentum pushing up the stairs to the CC against the Jackhammer wielding NC. Ran myself out of ammo and died. I honestly amazed myself that the Cycler got me through that.

Also:

HA
1: MCG
2 Jackhammer
3 Current Lasher

MA
1 Pulsar
2 Gauss
3 Cycler

AV
1 Lancer
2 Phoenix
3 Striker

AV MAX
1 Pounder
2 Comet
3 Falcon

AI MAX
1 Scat-MAX
2 DC (#1 if locked down)
3 Quasar

AA MAX
1 Starfire
2 Burster
3 Sparrow

Tank
1 Prowler (when fully manned)
2 Vanguard
3 Magrider

Buggy
1 Marauder (If fully manned)
2 Enforcer
3 Thresher

Deliverers
1 Raider (when fully manned)
2 Thunderer
3 Aurora

BFR
1 Peregrine (Provided Doom Cannon is equipped)
2 Colossus
3 Aphelion

Accuser · 2012-07-06, 01:35 AM

Tanks:
Magrider
Prowler
Vanguard
This is probably a biased list. The Magrider is spectacular at what it does: killing enemy vehicles (and aircraft). If that's your measure of a tank, then the Mag wins hands down. However, a Prowler does well against vehicles and infantry AND is best able to breach a courtyard so that friendlies can push in. So I could see it tying for first if you valued this as well. The Vanguard just isn't the best on either front.

AI Max
Dual-Cycler / Scatmax
Quasar
TR and NC tie for first and really, each is great at its own role (though the Quasar's TTK is far too low). A locked-down Dual-Cycler probably has the lowest TTK of anything in the game and is glorious on defense, probably my favorite to use. If an enemy pokes his head around a corner to look, that head is coming off.
Scatmax is best for attacking indoors, obviously.
And with the Quasar... you're defending safely from the cover of the base wall, until suddenly you have a squad of VS Maxes jumping on your face. They're great for claiming a courtyard, but the long TTK makes them SUCK indoors... which is exactly where the VS had the most problems in PS1.

Effective · 2012-07-06, 04:41 AM

Pistols

1. Repeater
2. Scat-Pistol
3. Beamer

HA
1. Jackhammer
2. Lasher
3. MCG - Mostly because for what HA is meant for the MCG suffers the most in. If the enemy lasher/JH doesn't miss, you can be the best player with the MCG in the world and you will still die.

Rifle
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker

AI Max
1. Scattercannon
2. Quasar
3. Dual-Cycler

AV Max
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon

AA Max
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow

Vehicles
1. Magrider
2. Vanguard
3. Prowler

Vehicles
1.Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora

Vehicles
1. Thresher
2. Marauder
3. Enforcer

robocpf1 · 2012-07-05, 12:19 AM

Rifle
1. Pulsar - After the CoF balance pass, I prefer this in most scenarios.
2. Gauss - At long range or at altitude, like in the caves, is the only place I prefer this over the Pulsar.
[PUNISHER GOES HERE, UNDERRATED WEAPON, AMAZING IN THE RIGHT HANDS.]
3. Cycler - Don't like this at all, feels inferior.

AV
1. Lancer - No lock-on notifications, takes some getting used to but fastest damage output of the three.
2. Phoenix - Can fire in non-conventional patters, around doors, out of buildings, etc
3. Striker - Better for new players but once you've got the firing down there's no reason not to switch to a lancer. However, best if you have large numbers outside in an open area, like Cyssor.

Main Battle Tanks
1. Magrider - Direct LOS shooting; great AA capabilities due to that.
- Can also avoid bridge choke points
2. Vanguard - Hits hard, loads of armor
3. Prowler - Sports all of the Vanguard's qualities but is a huge target and requires a second gunner for AA.

Transports
1.Thunderer - One-shot-kills on infantry and really good damage on vehicles. And you get two of the guns!
2. Raider - Requires 4 gunners and loads of coordination but can shred any target with ease.
3. Aurora - Only really good against infantry - but is best of the three against infantry. Against air and ground vehicles it is inferior.

Buggy
1. Thresher - Hovers, has highest speed, best maneuverability, good damage once you learn how to shoot.
2. Enforcer - Heavy damage against everything, beefy armor, I prefer this buggy. It's really the only one that's effective in columns.
3. Marauder - Main gun just doesn't feel like it does enough damage. It's just an upgraded Harasser, really. Great for clearing out CE and being a pest but otherwise I'd choose the other two.

DOUBLEXBAUGH · 2012-07-06, 02:17 PM

HA
1a. MCG
1b. JH
3. Lasher

MA
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker

Tank
1. Vanguard
2. Prowler
3. Magrider

Transports
1. Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora

Buggy
1. Enforcer
2. Thresher
3. Marauder

AI MAX
1. Scatt (its just that much better)
2.
3. Quasar/DC

AA MAX
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow

AV MAX
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon

NC - 20½
VS - 17½
TR - 15

MasterCalaelen · 2012-07-05, 04:10 AM

Pistols

1. Repeater
2. Scat-Pistol
3. Beamer

HA
1. Jackhammer
2. MCG
3. Lasher

Rifle
1. Gauss
1. Pulsar
2. Cycler

Pulsar and Gauss share the first position, I find them both equally good.

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker

AI Max
1. Scattercannon
2. Quasar
3. Dual-Cycler

AV Max
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon

AA Max
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow

Vehicles
1. Vanguard
2. Prowler
3. Magrider

Vehicles
1.Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora

Vehicles
1. Enforcer
2. Marauder
3. Thresher

MCYRook · 2012-07-05, 05:38 AM

Pistols
1. Repeater
2. Scat-Pistol
3. Beamer
Repeater wins by far. Not that it matters tho, I mean - pistols!

HA
1. MCG
2. Jackhammer
3. Lasher
JH best for soloing, although very restrictive niche. MCG is super-versatile, and in groups completely outperforms the JH. Lasher is kinda similar, but just wonky. :-/

Rifle
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler
Gauss used to be the shiz, but since the Pulsar buff I find the Pulsar a tiny bit better. Cycler still suffers from the Rexo buff, after all these years. Poor Cycler.

(Note to TR: And yet, Cycer > MCG outdoors nonetheless.)

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker
Lancer is pure sex and wins hands down. Phoenix has piss poor DPS, but can circumvent cover, utterly useless against air, but slaughters Maxes... weird thing. Striker is kinda meh, good as poor man's AA, but gets outperformed at AV and anti-Max by the other two.

AI Max
1. Scattercannon
1. Quasar
1. Dual-Cycler
I find them all awesome. Scatter is obviously still king of inyourfaceness. DC on Overdrive is on par with the Scatter now, except OD isn't always on (but it has range). Quasar has jumpjets, so yeah - the possibilities!

AV Max
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon
Comet best anti-Max Max (which IMO is the most important purpose of AV Maxes). Pounder better vs vehicles and for spamming. Falcon pretty much allround-Max, but isn't actually good at anything.

AA Max
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow
Personally like using the Burster the most (note: You CAN hit Libs at flight ceiling with it, easily), but Starfire wins purely because thanks to jumpets it can take Reavers head-on no problem (also: getting to annoying places). Sparrow? Fuck off. Fucking piece of crap. Can kill high-flying Libs and is useful at bridge battles, and everyone knows THAT wins battles, right?

Vehicles
1. Vanguard
1. Prowler
1. Magrider
They're all great IMO. Vanguard is just a good, proper tank. Prowler is harder to keep alive, but has BEASTLY damage output even with just the main gunner. Maggie is best for AV and can fend off air effectively, not as hot vs infantry, and trades armor for mobility.

Vehicles
1. Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora
Thundy is sooo much better than the other two. Raider is just a less efficient Deli, and Aurora has exactly one selling point: camping doors like no tomorrow.

Vehicles
1. Enforcer
2. Marauder
3. Thresher
Enfo just kills stuff, even after the one-shot nerf (and looks awesome while doing it). Thresher is fun as hell to drive, but just doesn't kill stuff. Marauder is inbetween.