Inventory and Resupply (Dropping Ammo)

[Bobby Shaftoe]

"I'm a light assault character, so I can actually drop my own ammo"
(About 50 seconds into part 4 of the GDC vids.)

One quick sentence that you might not even have paid that much attention to.

However, I think this is something that could cause some real problems with the game. Part of the challenge/fun of PS1 when you did something away from friendly support was the very fact you had to be smart(ish) with your ammo: Gen drop 2 bases behind the front? You better make those shots count otherwise you might be out of ammo for the next respawn wave or you might not have the cert to use the weapons the enemy drop etc etc (before the massive cert point boost/bundle reduction etc).

Just to clarify a couple points;
1.) Grenades/explosives are going to be 'resource' based expenses, thus limiting their purchase at proper equip terms, correct?
2.) No inventories/pickup weapons on the ground, correct?
3.) Ammo is shared across multiple weapons like PS1 (9mm)?
::EDIT::
4.) Ammo 'bags' are recharging abilities such as BF3's?
5.) Ammo 'bags' have limited resupply capacity?
::/EDIT::

Assuming the above is correct unless stated otherwise I shall continue.

For arguments sake; you've decided to take your group into a region deep behind the frontline, you put the hack on and you setup covering the chokepoints, grenades/explosives give you most bang for your auraxium... but a never ending stream of bullets works a close second.

Obviously being the 'defenders' at this fight you should have the advantage against equal numbers but what happens when you take very little/no attrition (not just casualties but running out of ammo or equipment) for doing so against twice your numbers or even three times your numbers?

Where is the 'reward' for that horde of enemies sending wave after wave against you and keeping you under constant pressure so you couldn't scavenge ammo (if it was old ps) if you now, in PS2, never run out of ammo and they can't break the chokepoints? Taking it to an extreme, if you knew how many people can squeeze through a chokepoint (say 2 at a time) and you knew that 6 people could 'instagib' them (4 firing, 2 reloading etc) then all you'd need to hold off the entire enemy pop is 6x people...

Obviously there's things to consider such as base design/layout etc etc but having unlimited ammo for primary weapon... doesn't sound like a good gameplay mechanic to me in PS2.

Thoughts/Ideas/Counter-points?

[Bags]

Just to clarify, I asked higby about this on twitter and he said they may move it onto heavy assault instead.

[Shade Millith]

Originally Posted by Bags

Just to clarify, I asked higby about this on twitter and he said they may move it onto heavy assault instead.

Honestly, it's not what class that has it that's the problem. Its the shear amount of ammo that could come out of these things.

I don't want, from a single click, to have 20 guys resupplied to maximum ammunition. It's too easy.

At least make them run up to the bag, and take some time to get the ammo out.

And any possibility of infinite ammo bags is worrisome.


Looting corpses and sharing ammunition around actually encouraged teamwork. This doesn't.

[Rivenshield]

Originally Posted by Shade Millith

At least make them run up to the bag, and take some time to get the ammo out.

And any possibility of infinite ammo bags is worrisome.

Looting corpses and sharing ammunition around actually encouraged teamwork. This doesn't.

They seem to have dis-incentivized a lot of the old concepts that developed and encouraged teamwork, all right. Single man tanks, spawn on your SL... pull infinite ammo out your ass.....

Now, I *can* see a one-per-customer nanite healing/ammo station, to be set up be either, say, medics or combat engies respectively. You get one per respawn. If you want to get another, you have to run back to an equipment terminal. Once you drop it, the nanites have a certain amount of work they can do before they vanish. After five hundred HP get healed, or after ten mags for any weapon have been pulled, they vanish. Plop.

That encourages teamwork. That requires forethought. It gives something to attack and defend. It's Planetside.....

...not a bunch of 32 vs 32 FPS's being fought concurrently in the same large area.

Devs, are you listening? Give us logistics and supply! not fucking MAGIC!

[kadrin]

I would really not like to see Ammo boxes be dropped by any class. Managing your inventory and more importantly your ammo was one of the things I loved about Planetside over every other FPS. In Battlefield 3, I don't ever bother looking at my ammo, it's always getting refilled by teammates or myself, I'm not even sure I've ever ran out of ammo before in that game in my 400+ hours.

Planetside was a whole different ball game, especially with the way my friends and I played, operating behind the lines usually, dropping gens, grabbing towers, or just general harassment. The number of times ammo became a concern and we were scavenging from the dead or looking for the nearest terminal to hack, all the times we had to fallback from an engagement simply because we didn't have enough to win the fight, or wouldn't have enough left over to defend ourselves on our way back to resupply. Those were the best.

Holding that Generator room as your ammo count dwindled, your medics ran out of juice for the ressing and healing, medkits becoming scarce, glue guns going dry, using scavenged enemy weapons to keep you going, sharing what little ammo remained with your squadmates.

Loading a couple of wraiths or something with extra ammo/glue/grenades and hiding them with an Aegis to use as a sort of forward firebase to fall back to resupply from as you fight on the flanks of your enemy.

Assaulting continents with no bases, falling back to a tower and running in to grab ammo for your tank.

None of these intense moments would have been possible if we could have just dropped a magic box that solves everyones problems. It makes the game take a little more thought, makes people a little more careful, slows the pacing down a little instead of always in your face action, shoot your gun, keep shooting your gun, why aren't you shooting your gun, there's ammo everywhere and your gun should be shooting. If I wanted that I wouldn't be playing Planetside, I'd be playing any other random generic FPS.

[VanuMAXGuy]

If the ammo bag doesn't give you more ammo bags(HOW DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE?) like BF3, it won't be so bad.

[Warhound]

Self replicating ammo bags... my god what has the world spawned!

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by VanuMAXGuy

If the ammo bag doesn't give you more ammo bags(HOW DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE?) like BF3, it won't be so bad.

nanites

[TerminatorUK]

Would certainly make light assault the class of choice if you can use it in an aircraft, survive bailing out by using your jump jets (Higby said that in one interview) and then have unlimited ammo...

[megamold]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

nanites

Nanites

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by megamold

Nanites

lol i was gonna look for that picture and edit nanites in there, but too much effort.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Ah yes, that's something I missed, is it just the one ammo bag or an 'ability' (bf3's recharge though).

Also would it have a maximum resupply 'capacity' ie it only supplies 10 magazines worth of ammo.

:EDIT:
It's not the fact it's on light assault rather than heavy assault, it's the fact it's in at all.

If you wiped out a wave of resecurers and were low on ammo, you had to leave your nice cover and run over to their backpacks, loot the ammo whilst exposed out in the open, then run back to cover.

Now you just drop a box.
:/EDIT:

[dai shan]

I just want to make a general comment about resupply in general

In battlefield games (especially bf3), ammo is seldom very important simply because it's just as easy to rush the enemy, die, and respawn with full ammo.

I never played ps1, but you can pretty much deduce logically that the formula will almost *always* be the same, and when you're out of ammo, the path of least resistance to more ammo will be the one most regularly used.

If it's quicker to just die and respawn in the thick of the fight (like using squad spawning or whatever), than it is to seek out an ammo refill via a squadmate or supply depot of whatever sort, then that's what will usually happen, and the role of being the "supply" guy, whatever class gets it, is devalued.

The same thing applies to health and revives as well.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Originally Posted by dai shan

I never played ps1

BF/MW spawn mechanics are really only applicable to the 'zerg' gameplay.

My example was when you were away from major support and had to rely on what you brought with you/had time to setup, router/ams IF possible (they were found quickly most the time anyway).

That was part of the whole challenge, you're behind enemy lines; see how long you can last before you run out of everthing. Now (apparantly) you can die, wait for revive, drop a box of ammo and it's like nothing has actually happened. All thats occured is someone got a +1 on a kill stat, +1 on a death stat and +1 on revive, nothing has advanced in terms of the fight developing.

[Bags]

One thing that confuses me... how often did you run out of ammo in Ps1? I seldom did.