Question I REALLY want answered.

Ranik Ortega · 2011-07-11, 01:00 AM

You're never stuck, capped or locked in to anything with the PS2 cert system. Recerting isn't necessary because there's no restrictions on how many certs you can have trained at a time, just how many you can take advantage of on any given loadout.

I was under the impression you would still have something like 20-24 Certs to spend between classes. But if I am reading this right that means at any given time you might be a BR 20 Engie / Medic /Light assault / Heavy assault all at the change of a terminal. This seems to go WAAAAAY against any sense of specialization as its all at the drop of a hat if I am correct in this I think THIS will be the most damaging to any sense of specialization in planetside.

Is it just me or does this explanation of classes make less sense than the initial class descriptions?

Zulthus · 2011-07-11, 01:14 AM

Honestly, it seems like he's implying you can be everything, just not all at once. And if that's true, PlanetSide won't be the same.

SKYeXile · 2011-07-11, 01:18 AM

yea sounds like its done, shut it down!

Zulthus · 2011-07-11, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

yea sounds like its done, shut it down!

Maybe not the game itself, but you know, specialization and all that

tjmonk15 · 2011-07-11, 01:23 AM

Umm... This was one of the beauties of PlanetSide. You could be anything, just not all at once. Now they are just changing how easy it is to switch, how is this bad?

They are taking something that was great in PS1 and making it easier/better in PS2.

If you think something is bad, explain why. Just saying "PlanetSide is done" and nothing else, implies you are either a 12 yr old who thinks he knows everything, a random doom sayer, or someone who just doesn't like change.

None of the above imply any intelligence, quite the opposite in fact.

-Monk

Zulthus · 2011-07-11, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by tjmonk15

Umm... This was one of the beauties of PlanetSide. You could be anything, just not all at once. Now they are just changing how easy it is to switch, how is this bad?

They are taking something that was great in PS1 and making it easier/better in PS2.

If you think something is bad, explain why. Just saying "PlanetSide is done" and nothing else, implies you are either a 12 yr old who thinks he knows everything, a random doom sayer, or someone who just doesn't like change.

None of the above imply any intelligence, quite the opposite in fact.

-Monk

Planetside didn't hand you everything all at once, which it * SEEMS LIKE THIS GAME IS DOING * All I'm saying is that if you can indeed cert everything at once in this game, which was nothing like PlanetSide 1, what's the point of specialization if all you do is die and switch to the exact kit you need for every situation? The "beauty of PlanetSide" was people having their specific roles; not everyone changing to exactly what they need when they need it. Calling me a "12 yr old who thinks he knows everything" doesn't imply any intelligence on your part either. Quite the opposite, in fact. I'm stating my opinion on what PlanetSide truly is, so there is no need for you to flame me for it. Kthxbye

SKYeXile · 2011-07-11, 01:38 AM

^^^

Yea, PS1, you made your character to play a certain way or to play afew different ways.you could not do everything at once, you could not also switch to anything you like at anytime, you had to wait for your cert timer. It made people think well in advance, what cert does my squad or outfit need to run more effectivly?

Bags · 2011-07-11, 01:48 AM

People had multiple characters specced multiple ways. This just removes the need to do that. Going to need to see exactly how this works before I pass judgment.

Zulthus · 2011-07-11, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

People had multiple characters specced multiple ways. This just removes the need to do that. Going to need to see exactly how this works before I pass judgment.

That's a much better method than the one implied. We don't need people that do everything - at least make another toon and specialize it in another direction if you so feel like doing something else.

Death2All · 2011-07-11, 01:57 AM

The purpose of certifications was to make your character choose a role. This also emphasized teamwork because you'd have someone be a hacker, someone be the medic, someone be the MAX etc.

Since you can now "seamlessly" change classes and apparently cert whatever you want this time around it really diminishes the need for teamwork.

I really hope there is more clarification in the future or they're trolling us.

Ranik Ortega · 2011-07-11, 02:06 AM

Yes I could understand the need for classes to keep silly stuff from being done aka Agile pilot med/engy/deci air drops and the like. And even so the need to make classes so the classes themselves can have very interesting play styles attached to them. However, the ability to simultaneously have a fully developed skill tree in every class at the same time is folly. It completely removes the point of specialization in a class if you can just specialize in another class any given time at any given terminal.

I will refrain from panicking yet or fear mongering, but I deeply want to have this question answered further by some of the developers since they have been very kind as of late in answering fan questions. Classes were an understandable addition, however the LACK of specialization into classes for at least short periods is not understandable.

How would I go about getting this clarified?

Senyu · 2011-07-11, 02:29 AM

From what I understood, every class or specilization has it's own progression. You may be a 20 pilot but still only be a 5 medic which was I think an example they actually used. So in sense you COULD have every cert but I beleive its only after progressing and finishing every tree.

Which if this is indeed how it is does give you a goal to work for in becoming 20 in everything but it just makes me ask whats next after you do it all.

**Malorn** · 2011-07-11, 04:30 AM

My understanding of the system as it has been revealed*:

1) There is a huge skill tree with sub-trees that are roles you can play on the battlefield.

2) battle rank unlocks certs automatically across all trees. As you gain BR you unlock more certs, enabling those roles to do more/have more. So for example, if you switch to a pilot role you gain access to some basic weapons and the ability to fly aircraft. A higher BR pilot may have access to more specialized aircraft or other support certifications (repair, better weapons, etc).

3) You can switch roles at any time, at which time you gain access to all of the certs in that role. So you could walk up to a cert terminal and swap out of that pilot role into a MAX role.

4) You can train in certs specifically to gain enhancements in those certs, like upgrades to do that thing better and allow you to specialize further. This training is real-time and probably increases exponentially like EVE Online. (it could also be that you must train the first rank to use a cert at all, but like EVE the first rank trains quickly)

It seems as though it is like PS where if you were max BR and you had access to every cert, but the difference is you could only use subsets of them at any one time.

Additionally, there's another layer of specialization allowing you to do the roles you like better by investing time in them.

That's my understanding of the system. Matt mentioned that re-certing is unnecessary because you have access to all the certs, but not all at the same time. I believe my understanding is consistent with that statement, however I can still see where people would like to "respec" their specialization decisions, especially since these take real time to earn and shifting specializations from say an uber awesome tank driver to an uber awesome infantryman would not be quick, as you'd have to wait and train up all the infantry stuff. But in that case we might just be SOL and have to train it up in either case. I'm not sure the respec is entirely needed but I can see how some people would want one.

*: I could be entirely wrong here

Raymac · 2011-07-11, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

Since you can now "seamlessly" change classes and apparently cert whatever you want this time around it really diminishes the need for teamwork.

I see what you are saying here, but I gotta disagree. Even if everyone can do everything, you still need to perform roles, hence needing to rely on other people. For example, the best raids I've been in have used combined arms, so you still need people to fill the different roles. Or perhaps you want to all select the same thing like a max crash team, well more people would be able to participate.

I think this idea of a one-man-army-too-many-certs stems from the type of gameplay PS1 slipped into. By this I mean, the fights are all about the bases so you could fly your mosq, bail out over the base, run in with your HA, then repair and heal yourself. The problem is being able to do all those things at once, not that you are able to do them all.

But you are right, we really are going to have to wait and see when we get more information. The skill trees could be so deep it would take years to get them all at which point who knows what the expansions will bring. Or maybe there are some restrictions on certs. Most importantly, we are going to see how it will play in beta and I have faith in the devs.

Zulthus · 2011-07-11, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I see what you are saying here, but I gotta disagree. Even if everyone can do everything, you still need to perform roles, hence needing to rely on other people. For example, the best raids I've been in have used combined arms, so you still need people to fill the different roles. Or perhaps you want to all select the same thing like a max crash team, well more people would be able to participate.

I think this idea of a one-man-army-too-many-certs stems from the type of gameplay PS1 slipped into. By this I mean, the fights are all about the bases so you could fly your mosq, bail out over the base, run in with your HA, then repair and heal yourself. The problem is being able to do all those things at once, not that you are able to do them all.

But you are right, we really are going to have to wait and see when we get more information. The skill trees could be so deep it would take years to get them all at which point who knows what the expansions will bring. Or maybe there are some restrictions on certs. Most importantly, we are going to see how it will play in beta and I have faith in the devs.

You make a good point, but I still would rather have it where players can only have one specialization per character. That's not to say they can't make another and follow a different path. I just feel it would add more to the teamplay aspect.