Spawns DESPERATELY need a redesign...

[Tom Peters]

I know it's been said a million times over, and I know there's been gajillions of threads about it, but spawn shield camping is literally the one thing that makes this game a snorefest right now.

And what really irritates me the most is that it can be very easily fixed!

Take a look at Planetside 1. Where were ALL of the spawn tubes?

They were ALL indoors, and underground, faaaar away from any sign of vehicle activity. The only way you could get to an enemy spawn is by getting out of your tank and making the trek inside the base to quell the spawntubes.

So why not do the same here??

If the spawn entrances/exits were underground, out of sight from vehicles, they wouldn't be able to be camped like this.

Now I know what you're going to say; "Oh, but then the vehicles will just camp the tunnel exit, it will be the same thing!"

But that actually won't be the case provided they build the tunnels properly, having several different exits, including one that will take you directly underneath the capture points.

This will also create an area for infantry to fight over bases without the threat of getting blasted by some vehicle that they haven't even seen yet, featuring awesome underground pushes like we used to see when one team raided the backdoor in Planetside 1.

If one team vastly outnumbers another, sure, they could still push inside those tunnels and get to the spawn and camp it, but if they are capable of pushing that far underground with infantry, they deserve to be able to destroy the spawns. So of course, there should be NO shields protecting these underground spawns and the tubes should be destructible. Maybe include a pain field as well.

I'm sure the devs are already planning on doing this, as many of the base layouts have areas already designated for tunnel entrances, but they need to prioritize this!

Seriously, I am soooo sick of having an epic base raid, capturing the point, then having the enemy locked in spawn and find yourself saying, "Oh, 5 minutes until capture? Guess it's time to redeploy and find a new fight..."

[AThreatToYou]

I support OP
---> "Destroy the Spawn Tubes!" is my desire.
but at least put the spawns underground. On ALL bases.

[bjorntju1]

This is the reason why I don't play the game a lot anymore. I love the infantry fights, but 50% of the time, if not more it comes down to spawn camping after the defenders have been pushed back. It is really boring and not fun at all. I think putting the spawns underground is a good idea, and I hope they are going to do that. I still think it was an incredibly stupid choice to make the bases so open. The PS1 indoor bases, while there wasn't a lot of diversity in the tunnels and rooms, was much more fun to play then what it is right now. Then you actually had a chance to recapture the facility after you have been pushed back, now it is almost impossible to recapture the facility once you are pushed back into the spawn.

[bpostal]

Bases and outposts need a redesign for sure, people have been asking for that since launch (and before in some cases).
Here's to hoping the Interfarm will kick some serious ass in the layout department.

[Crator]

Agreed, 100%

[Shogun]

+1 from me

[GreyFrog]

Dear Higby,

Make it thus.....

Seriously 10 minute time to capture a large facility....10 minutes of spawn camping *sigh*

[ringring]

I think that's a new definition of 'very easily fixed'.

It needs a complete overhaul of bases, especially the major bases. And I'd agree I've been wanting that to happen almost from the moment I could walk and became embarrassed using the potty among guests.

Don't kid yourself, it's a major change. I means hiding the spawns in a hard to reach area that forces you to fight your way there.

[Tom Peters]

Originally Posted by ringring

I think that's a new definition of 'very easily fixed'.

It needs a complete overhaul of bases, especially the major bases. And I'd agree I've been wanting that to happen almost from the moment I could walk and became embarrassed using the potty among guests.

Don't kid yourself, it's a major change. I means hiding the spawns in a hard to reach area that forces you to fight your way there.

Okay, so it's not exactly simple, but the idea behind it is, since they did it in the first game. In my mind, I'm baffled as to why they ever decided to make the spawns work the way they do. Did they not see this problem when they first starting testing?

What irritates me even more is how they talk about fixing this, adding this, changing that, but NOWHERE have they mentioned anything about doing something about the spawns! If it's not even on their radar, that means we'll be dealing with this for months to come before they even consider fixing it.

[p0intman]

Note: I've been saying this for literally ages. Probably won't happen because "its too restrictive on certain playstyles", etc.

Obligatory not close enough to CoD/Battlefield comment here, also too restrictive on MLG viewing, too restrictive on "Tactics" and such.



Snore.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by ringring

I think that's a new definition of 'very easily fixed'.

It needs a complete overhaul of bases, especially the major bases. And I'd agree I've been wanting that to happen almost from the moment I could walk and became embarrassed using the potty among guests.

Don't kid yourself, it's a major change. I means hiding the spawns in a hard to reach area that forces you to fight your way there.

Indeed, it was why I was pushing so hard for what we have NOW, I knew we needed something in the interm to keep the game afloat while they go back and overhaul.

Originally Posted by ringring

What is wrong with camping spawns? Serious question. I don't see any particular problem with that.

Where there is a problem is in the phase leading up to that.

The camping of spawns is simply an indication that the fight is over and it's the 'fight is over' part that is the problem.

If you look back to PS1 bases the spawns were deep within the bases which meant that there would be a (or often would be) a severe fight to the spawns. It doesn't happen in PS2.

Yeah, this is what has me convinced Planetside 2 was laid out by an RPG Art Design Team and not an FPS Map Building team; Random scattered buildings do not a shooter map make!

Hopefully we'll get to see those purpose built Bases on Esamir soon, so we can have less "quaint micro-towns" and more "Fortresses of Military importance."

Originally Posted by TartarosCZ

It's actually funny when you think of how they made bases that look gigantic from the outside, yet are actually smaller inside - maybe not in square meters but definitely in their infantry combat utilization.

In Ps1 there were corridors and stairs where you had to bitterly fight over each meter of progress, while in PS2 one LA can fly over the whole thing in five seconds.
Boredom ensues.

I know right, these Major Base builds are all just GIANT SHEDS!!!

You can't have that shit in shooter, it's just turns the game into whose spots the other guy first...

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

If they put spawns underground, ideally, the hallways would be much larger.
Multiple small entrances on the same face of an exit would block enemies from bringing vehicles inside.
The doors would have a back-face and horizontal exits to block vehicles from shooting into the spawns. This way the underground tunnel does not need to be curved or turned in the case of outposts and smaller bases.
[Back-face: The doors have a wall immediately behind them that blocks fire. This would be inside the tunnel.]
The tunnel would be rather large. Large enough for a LA's jetpack to be of some use; perhaps some air ventilation ducts that only LA's can escape from or flank enemies inside the tunnel with.

But that would require building things underground, which they're not doing...

...For no god damn reason apparently, seeing as they WERE able to get tunnels put in.

Wonder if Smed was the one behind this decision as well...

[camycamera]

yes OP this is my biggest hate about the game.

JUST DO WHAT PS1 DID DEVS. it leads to cooler underground fights, and the indoors are a maze to get through.

[Obstruction]

or keep the long cap timer and remove spawn buildings as a mechanic. this would stop them from being the source of terrible base design.

then change AMS to something cheap that you pick up and carry on any ground vehicle and leave it up to players where to place spawns. it could be like a trailer that you load up at the nearest lattice point, then deploy as you reach the front.

the effect is that a force moving into an open base with a 10 minute cap would be placed (naturally) in the position of defending the capture from its owners, who would have to advance or flank with AMSs and coordinate with air strikes rather than just pop out of a farming hut, surrounded by enemies.

in this way attacking is only attacking if there's someone there defending, and attacking becomes defending if you show up first and they push back after the fact. conversely, defending is only defending until you get pushed out and AMSs near the capture point are destroyed. at that point you're falling back to backup AMSs outside, or pulling them from nearest lattice and attacking to push the usurpers out.

it is my claim that the spawn building as a mechanic is the cause of the stagnation. with this basic change, base and terrain design can be approached with the intent to make battles fun for both parties in the push and pull style we expect, rather than designed to make the problems of the spawn building more palatable.

• remove the spawn building as a mechanic
• divorce the AMS from the sunderer
• make AMS a cheap device, carried and dropped by any ground vehicle
• redesign bases to aid defense of the capture point by whoever occupies it

[Figment]

Obstruction would kill all fights, because nobody would set up fall back points if he knew the populace well... >_>

[Tiberius]

Or why the inside of every single bio lab is the same...