Let's Focus on Real Issues

Hamma · 2012-11-01, 09:23 PM

I’ve seen enough negativity as of late that I felt the need to create this post.

PlanetSide Universe has always been an outlet for the community since the days I first bought it online. We’ve had good times and bad of course but I feel we have always had a pretty solid community where elitism and trolling was at a minimum.

We are now at a critical crossroads that many of you probably don’t even think about. The more negativity and attacking of the developers on this forum the less likely they are to frequent it. Not to mention they are far less likely to find anything at all useful here when they arrive.

I encourage all our users brand new and Veteran to think before they post. I’m not pretending like everything is perfect because it is not, but complaining in a thread that the devs said they would listen to the community but now they obviously aren’t because release is November 20th is not constructive and quite frankly pointless. The release date is now set in stone, there is no use in complaining about it.

Here are some examples of pointless threads and arguments that contribute nothing.

Complaining about how the water isn't deep enough.
Complaining about how PlanetSide 2 is clone of _INSERT FPS HERE_
Complaining about how X PlanetSide 1 System is not included without reasons why it should be.

We have enjoyed what is arguably the most involved development team in online gaming today. I expect everyone to respect the time they spend and if you have a point to get across make valid and calculated reasons as to why. We will begin handing out infractions to people who would rather just attack and never provide any meaningful feedback. Before the official forums we were the only outlet they had to get feedback from the community. Now I can’t help but think our feedback is becoming less and less relevant because it’s just a bunch of veterans complaining about features that won’t be implemented from PlanetSide 1. I can assure you the Developers have already read it and it doesn’t need to be rehashed for the 10,000th time.

My vision has always been a constructive community where developers, new players, and veterans were welcome to express their points without fear of attack. I am not asking everyone to pretend like there are not problems, far from it. I am asking that if you are going to post do so in a constructive contributive manner that the devs can actually use. This includes saying “Implement X feature because it worked in PlanetSide 1” instead “Implement X feature from PlanetSide 1 because it would help in Y way”

Thanks all for taking the time to read.

Whalenator · 2012-11-01, 09:38 PM

I'm arguably the most whiney guy on these forums but wholeheartedly agree with Hamma here.

The time for major developmental changes was months ago. I know people will say "Beta is beta", but Beta is almost over. Although it sickens me so to say that the game is just too complete for some changes, it just is. Don't count on required gunners for MBTs. Don't count on an increased TTK. Don't count on a latice system or a slow pace of combat.

This is not Planetside 1. It's a completely different game now, geared towards a completely different (Or rather, changed) audience. I played Planetside 1 since a little after launch and I can still agree that, in the context of today, this is the true successor to that great game.

Jennyboo · 2012-11-01, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Whalenator

This is not Planetside 1. It's a completely different game now, geared towards a completely different (Or rather, changed) audience. I played Planetside 1 since a little after launch and I can still agree that, in the context of today, this is the true successor to that great game.

I agree 100% this isn't Planetside 1 once people start realizing that maybe the forum QQing will stop.

Carver · 2012-11-01, 09:53 PM

Maybe create one catch-all pissed off PS1 fanboy rage thread and maybe it can all be contained in one place. And not spill over into 5 new topics per day that all complain about the same things over and over.

"You can wish in one hand, and crap in the other, and see which gets filled first."

TheStigma · 2012-11-18, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Whalenator

I'm arguably the most whiney guy on these forums but wholeheartedly agree with Hamma here.

The time for major developmental changes was months ago. I know people will say "Beta is beta", but Beta is almost over. Although it sickens me so to say that the game is just too complete for some changes, it just is. Don't count on required gunners for MBTs. Don't count on an increased TTK. Don't count on a latice system or a slow pace of combat.

This is not Planetside 1. It's a completely different game now, geared towards a completely different (Or rather, changed) audience. I played Planetside 1 since a little after launch and I can still agree that, in the context of today, this is the true successor to that great game.

Actually, regarding the gunners on MBT - Higby himself (in one of his streams detailing patch changes) said that it was a goal to eventually allow some sort of cert sidegrade for tanks that would allow dedicated gunners of some sort to tanks. Because this would obviously be non-mandatory there would be higher tier main-guns to use under that type of configuration to make up for the extra crew required. He did say that this was something they had planned for later though - so its not worth hoping for at launch (or realistically probably not within the first few months either) but it does give some hope that they haven't just said "oh well, too late now" for implementing those kinds of wishes from the community.

-Stigma

**whisenhunt** · 2012-11-01, 09:46 PM

Awesome post Hamma!

Just wanted to leave this here:

This is not our final product by any means, we have more passion for this game than just about anyone in the industry has for theirs. We plan to continue to improve, add and tweak the game for years, not just until launch

<3

Ranik Ortega · 2012-11-01, 09:53 PM

Yeah no...

People are complaining for a reason. Saying "focus on the real issues" when people ARE complaining about major issues is silly. If logical arguments fall on deaf ears then negativity is sure to arise and rightfully so.

The game is a giant BF3 map. It includes the absolute minimum of PS1 features. And those PS1 features missing have been argued over countless times explaining WHY they were unique and good for the game. Further many balance issues have been taken to the forums for ages and still no word or concern on them.

Combat engineering is laughable, the engineer hasn't been touched in ages. Mines are hilariously bad, claymores can actually be sprinted over for zero damage.

ES MBT's still have major balance issues and a lot of secondaries which are utter garbage and conceptually flawed. Despite having people explain why they were bad and how they could be fixed for months now.

The devs have on more than one occasion actually ignored attempts by large groups of people to bring logic and balance into the equation in the name of "fun". Even if that "fun" basically utterly complicates balance and destroys a lot of gameplay aspects.

At every step we see the game becoming easier, not better. The negativity is there for a reason.

Hamma · 2012-11-01, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ranik Ortega

Yeah no...

People are complaining for a reason. Saying "focus on the real issues" when people ARE complaining about major issues is silly.

The game is a giant BF3 map. It includes the absolute minimum of PS1 features. And those PS1 features missing have been argued over countless times explaining WHY they were unique and good for the game.

The negativity is there for a reason.

And at this point I think the devs have seen it. Just guessing..

Be constructive is what I ask. Enough raging about pointless things with no reasons to back them up. A simple request I think, I want to also welcome new players into this community and them coming in seeing a bunch of people raging doesn't bring new people in it pushes them away.

Ranik Ortega · 2012-11-01, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

And at this point I think the devs have seen it. Just guessing..

Be constructive is what I ask. Enough raging about pointless things with no reasons to back them up. A simple request I think, I want to also welcome new players into this community and them coming in seeing a bunch of people raging doesn't bring new people in it pushes them away.

And you missed the point. On the actual PS2 forums many many posters have taken so much of their time to point out logical issues and balance problems.

These have been ignored for the most part. Hence the negativity.

A person can only remain constructive for so long when they are at times being outright ignored

**whisenhunt** · 2012-11-01, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ranik Ortega

And you missed the point. On the actual PS2 forums many many posters have taken so much of their time to point out logical issues and balance problems.

These have been ignored for the most part. Hence the negativity.

A person can only remain constructive for so long when they are at times being outright ignored

This will be my last post regarding this debate:

Just because someone makes a solid case for something doesn't mean it goes in the game instantly, or at all.

However being positive greatly improves the appearance of said solid case.

Being hateful or disrespectful only drives away players and takes away from the overall goal of growing our community and improving our game.

This is speaking from a players perspective, I've been a part of many passionate, hardcore gaming scenes and seen many re-launches and such of games I've loved. In the end I always find that one negative post can drive 10 people away from the community without even giving it a chance, this is good in no ones eyes.

Back to work!

EDIT: We do read all the posts, good and bad btw.

Whalenator · 2012-11-02, 03:56 AM

Guys, they're not going to change it.
I know it was the dream game, I know you wanted a revived Planetside 1 with some bugfixes, new ideas and increased viewdistance (Hell, I wanted that too). But this game isn't that, nor will it ever be. Times have changed. The "Quiet Majority" has shifted its views to a different style of FPS, and while I resent that, I also accept it. It's reality.

SOE, like any other for-profit company, has to appeal to the highest bidder. The highest bidder happens to desire a large BF3 map with a joke of a metagame, a dumbed-down hacking system, little sense of direction, little opportunity for solo or outfit play and a completely upside-down grief system.

Anyways it's too late now, so any further complaints about how bad the game are will just be construed as whining. Suck it up, we can still swing the game towards the olden golden in smaller ways.

tl;dr I agree with Hamma on that we need to be more positive but disagree that we should lighten up on the Devs as not to 'scare them off.'

Aaron · 2012-11-01, 11:19 PM

Great post, Hamma. This is why you're a community leader. This place is special for both the players and the devs, and I want it to always be that way.

Sturmhardt · 2012-11-02, 03:42 AM

The negativity didn't come from nothing. People did not start being negative for no reason. As you can remember we all were so hyped about this game before beta, everything we have seen got our hopes up that this game could be the most awesome game of the year - but many promises did not come true.

Right now we have a huge BF3 map with tanks all over the place without ANY metagame. Base defenses are nearly impossible because of the way bases are set up and big fights are DISCOURAGED by the hex system because you can always avoid the enemy and take the easy route. Not to mention the really bad performance... it is slowly getting better, but nowhere near any state where everyone with a "normal" gaming PC can enjoy the game. All these issues have been discussed many many times, but until now nothing really changed and that can be frustrating at times, expecially when someone like Smed twitters stuff like "Haters gonna hate" to "justify" something.

But if PS2 was still deep in beta all these things would not matter. Everybody would sit back, forget the game for a few months and check it out later when it got better. But it is releasing in 18 days and after release it is gonna be a lot harder for the devs to change fundamental things about the game because there will be people who paid real money for certain ingame items/weapons that will feel cheated if the devs change a mechanic that makes the item they bought useless. Also there will not be the "Beta" label anymore, people will expect a game that is ready to release, not something that should have been in closed beta for another 3 months. I understand that the devs are under a lot of pressure at this point, because I can't imagine them to believe this early release is a good idea. There has to be some kind of pressure from above, but that does not really calm me down as a player, because I fear that after the release many devs will be pulled to EQ Next or other projects because of the same reasons PS2 is coming so early right now.

All in all I can say: Criticism is appropriate at this point. These ARE the real issues and you can't just say "Ignore the metagame, the tankspam, the not-existing big battles! Let's focus on something unimportant and not be mean to the devs anymore."

P.S. I appreciate J.Whisenhunt's input in this thread, because lately the devs didn't really post in the community forums. And I really hope it is true what he says, that the game will be improved and get better over time... and that fundamental issues will still be addressed after launch, because this game has so much potential.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-11-02, 07:11 AM

I' hearing two voices in my head. One says that this is needed to curb the current upswing in posts that are more of a rant then they want to admit. The other voice says that deciding what a positive post with criticism is versus a negative post can be a fine line and could lead to a slide into much heavier moderation.

Don't worry. I'm not wearing tinfoil because I think Hamma is trying to take control of something he already controls; I'm wearing tinfoil because of the aliens.

The third voice says that talking about posting negatively is actually a bigger topic at the moment than the actual negative posts. The fourth voice is giving me investment tips regarding car insurance companies.

Hamma · 2012-11-02, 09:39 AM