Gun Control

[bigcracker]

Gun control in the united states, Is it really necessary to own a AR-15 with a 70 round drum mag?I myself love guns, I love to go out shooting but isn't it enough seeing so many people get killed in places they shouldn't be. People are getting killed in schools,Colleges and now movie theaters. So is it time to start restricting the firearms that are available to us? To start putting in longer waiting periods and a mandatory license to use?

[Zulthus]

Civilians should of course be able to own firearms. Even so, I honestly don't see why they would, as you said, need military assault rifles and .50 caliber weapons. I'm not sure why they're on sale.

I'm not trying to say I want them to restrict gun sales or anything, but do you really need that M16, or that M249? I just think it's a little silly that those kinds of weapons are available to the public.

I own a M9 myself just in case, absolutely no need for anything larger myself.

[berzerkerking]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Civilians should of course be able to own firearms. Even so, I honestly don't see why they would, as you said, need military assault rifles and .50 caliber weapons. I'm not sure why they're on sale.

I'm not trying to say I want them to restrict gun sales or anything, but do you really need that M16, or that M249? I just think it's a little silly that those kinds of weapons are available to the public.

I own a M9 myself just in case, absolutely no need for anything larger myself.

USAS 12 lol

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by berzerkerking

USAS 12 lol

There is no situation a civilian could find themselves in where a weapon like that would be necessary. If you really own an automatic shotgun, at least cop to the fact that you own it because you think it's cool and it makes you feel powerful.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

There is no situation a civilian could find themselves in where a weapon like that would be necessary. If you really own an automatic shotgun, at least cop to the fact that you own it because you think it's cool and it makes you feel powerful.

I can think of a situation where a civilian would find that necessary: home invasion by multiple armed assailants.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Firefly

I can think of a situation where a civilian would find that necessary: home invasion by multiple armed assailants.

What about post apocalyptic zombie epidemic? An undead islamic army lead by Khadaffi and Saddam Hussein? Or invasion of aliens from Area 51, hunting armed Big Foots? Or when Superman is ill and can't protect the earth from mutants? Or ethnic cleansing or shooting at rival gangs or robbing a bank, killing mobs of innocents, oh wait... That wouldn't be done by all those nice, responsible people, ehr...

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by Firefly

I can think of a situation where a civilian would find that necessary: home invasion by multiple armed assailants.

I'm not sure I buy it. I mean that sounds like a situation more likely to be found in a movie than in real life. I mean why would you need an automatic shotgun? Would a semi-automatic handgun not do the trick? Did a Mexican drug cartel put out a hit on you, a la Scarface? Does this sort of thing happen often?

I just don't think our homes are being invaded by squads of heavily armed assailants in a high enough frequency to justify people arming themselves in preparation for it. I imagine a handgun would do the trick. Unless you're Miami's most notorious drug kingpin.

As has been said about 30 times in this thread you will never understand.

Why will I 'never' understand? Please explain to me why I'm incapable of learning this. I love hearing things about myself when explained by people who have never met me and don't know anything I don't personally tell them.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

An M9 with a magazine of 9mm +P 147 gr JHP. Is as dangerous as any
weapon you just mentioned. Reason. It is not the gun, it's the bullet.

In the 90s the Black Talon bullet was famous for being so brutal. That is a
baby compared to the bullets available to civilians these days. Technology
has come a long way with bullets.

People who have these gun grabber discussions don't understand. It is the
bullet that has become more powerful, not the gun.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because you're right, but the difference between a pistol and a machine gun is the amount of ammunition it holds and it can spit it out a lot faster. I never said that one was more dangerous than the other.

But, there's a reason the military doesn't just run around with a pistol in the field

All I'm saying is I don't see the point of selling military grade weapons to the public when a pistol is just as dangerous but much cheaper. I don't know many people that sleep with a M249 under their pillow

[bigcracker]

In a way i agree with Dj a little yes owning a M16 is bad but also the ammunition also plays a big part. In Colorado he was using rounds that when he shot someone even a 5.56 at close range will go through a couple of people. But then again whats the point of owning a M16,AR or AK its not like your going to hunt with it.

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

An M9 with a magazine of 9mm +P 147 gr JHP. Is as dangerous as any
weapon you just mentioned. Reason. It is not the gun, it's the bullet.

In the 90s the Black Talon bullet was famous for being so brutal. That is a
baby compared to the bullets available to civilians these days. Technology
has come a long way with bullets.

People who have these gun grabber discussions don't understand. It is the
bullet that has become more powerful, not the gun.

You do you understand that some guns can spread bullets more efficiently and rapidly than other guns right?

[Boof]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

An M9 with a magazine of 9mm +P 147 gr JHP. Is as dangerous as any
weapon you just mentioned. Reason. It is not the gun, it's the bullet.

In the 90s the Black Talon bullet was famous for being so brutal. That is a
baby compared to the bullets available to civilians these days. Technology
has come a long way with bullets.

People who have these gun grabber discussions don't understand. It is the
bullet that has become more powerful, not the gun.

I can see where you're coming from. However, when a shooting happens, it's all about the gun. If you have a semi automatic assault rifle that can hold up to say 30 rounds that's - potentially - 30 dead people. If the shooter only has a handgun with a clip of 12 rounds then that's a lot less casualties.

Also, clip size does matter. The less the guy shoots before having to reload the faster the victims have a chance to jump the guy while he's reloading. That's how the shooter in Arizona who shot Gabby Giffords was stopped. He was reloading and people tackled him.

[BNuts]

You can't own a M249 SAW as a normal civilan, period. An M-4 is just as dangerous as any pistol or shotgun. Regulations on magazine size and such and types of ammunition avial. for use are pure lobbyist BS. In NJ you can't even have hollow-points.. I have myself never pulled a weapon on anyone, or had the need to, in the US.
But I retain the right to carry a firearm, and to use it to protect myself and my family.

Best way to protect yourself.. Live in a safe neighborhood, and stay away from any area or situation where you would think you would need to carry a weapon of any sort.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by BNuts

You can't own a M249 SAW as a normal civilan, period.

You can, it's just regulated... very heavily regulated. You need to live in a class III firearms state, send in the paperwork, get the required permits, wait a few months, and find a SAW manufactured/registered before '86. Priced normally around $25k-$50k. Sometimes upwards of $100k. Good luck finding one.


So I guess yeah, not as a 'normal' civilian...

[Figment]

But what if you want to revolt against the government? What is inherently wrong with having Patriot missile systems (it's in the name!) in your backyard? I mean, they got AH-64 Apaches! A-10 Thunderbolt Warthogs!

And clusterbombs!

Clearly, if your point of having a gun is to rebel against the oppressor, anything short of allowing private armies is limiting your freedoms!

(And remember the Ala... commies! Must defend against the commies and fill the pockets of ye good ol' all american patriotic weapons industry!)

[/foilhat]

EDIT: Can we at least agree the above line of argumentation should never be followed when argueing in favour of gun possession because it's just that stupid even if they try to make it sound "reasonable"?

[Accuser]

Last year I was living in the south-western part of South Korea and one weekend in May they were commemorating the 31st anniversary of the "Gwangju Democratization Movement". You see, until the 1980's, the country was run by a U.S. backed military dictator... a capitalist dictator, of course. And on 18 May 1980 a series of rallies were held to protest ongoing martial law, the closing of universities and other curtailed rights. In the ensuing clashes, many protesters and onlookers were beaten or killed by police and military forces. In response to the killings, protesters raided armories and police stations, arming themselves and pushing military forces out of the city.

Over the proceeding days, as negotiations with the authoritarian regime broke down, some vowed non-violent resistance. Others refused to return to oppression without a fight. And fight they did, to the last man. Five divisions of an authoritarian regime marched into Gwangju. Nearly as many soldiers later marched out. But the regime's military victory was a crushing political defeat. The enemy was equipped with tanks, APCs and state-of-the-art, U.S. supplied M16s. And yet, in violent resistance, the people gained victory through their defeat.

Saying "give me liberty or give me death" and having the power to f*cking make it happen. Being able to revive the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants, however it may fall. That's what it means to be armed and trained. That's why my ancestors held these things in such high regard. And that's why many of us will still say "from my cold, dead hands".