"Healing beams" for the Medic/Engi

Death2All · 2012-06-05, 08:46 PM

First of all, I know this is an early alpha build and nothing is finalized. Just want to get that out of the way before someone instantly dismisses they entire thread based off of that rationale alone.

With that said, what did you guys think of healing beam that was being used during one segment of the live stream? Unfortunately there isn't a VOD up anywhere so I can't show the exact spot where it was, only hope that someone else caught it as well.

Personally, I find healing beams to be lame. Really lame. I'm all for speeding up the gameplay, but I think healing beams just over simplify it to the point that it's boring. Also, healing beams sort of enforce that whole "pocket medic" mentality that you see in games that incorporate them. I don't really feel they have a place in the game.

I'd like to see a more meaningful healing system where it feels like you're actually healing the guy in some shape or form, not just pointing a beam at them and watching their life bar go up gradually. I'm not sure exactly how to capture that. In PS1 you had to stand still if you wanted to be healed/repaired which I feel did a good job at enforcing that elusive teamwork aspect that everyone loves (not sarcasm). You had to actually sit still like a good patient and cooperate with the medic/engy that was repairing you. Not exactly that meaningful, but I'd like to see some spiritual counterpart to that over the boring healing beams of doom.

Again, we have no idea how exactly they work, some further clarification would be nice, but I don't really expect to get any.

Zulthus · 2012-06-05, 08:47 PM

Well, I'm not really for/against it, but I can sure say I prefer that to throwing down a medic box and being done with it.

SpcFarlen · 2012-06-05, 08:50 PM

At first i didnt like the idea. But for medic i actually really like the idea. By not throwing down a medpack a person cant just throw it down and get back to shooting. They have to take themselves out of the fight to heal someone. So it brings the risk reward scenario up. Is the risk of me not being able to shoot worth it now?

It makes healing a much more active role rather than a passive role. You can look at Bf3 where they throw down a pack and go straight to shooting. Besides that brief second animation, their healing didnt hinder their offensive capability it actually enhanced it.

So i see it as a good thing.

Aurmanite · 2012-06-05, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by SpcFarlen

At first i didnt like the idea. But for medic i actually really like the idea. By not throwing down a medpack a person cant just throw it down and get back to shooting. They have to take themselves out of the fight to heal someone. So it brings the risk reward scenario up. Is the risk of me not being able to shoot worth it now?

It makes healing a much more active role rather than a passive role. You can look at Bf3 where they throw down a pack and go straight to shooting. Besides that brief second animation, their healing didnt hinder their offensive capability it actually enhanced it.

So i see it as a good thing.

Great points.

NewSith · 2012-06-05, 08:53 PM

When did you notice a healbeam there? That was an engi beam, not Medic beam.

What bothers me more is the fact that MAXes actually regenerate armor by themselves. very slowly but they actually do.

EDIT: On a sidenote - I'm against healing* beams, GA showed what a game can turn into when you give medics a healgun that's rather effective, it becomes too centered around them and very TFish

ringring · 2012-06-06, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by SpcFarlen

At first i didnt like the idea. But for medic i actually really like the idea. By not throwing down a medpack a person cant just throw it down and get back to shooting. They have to take themselves out of the fight to heal someone. So it brings the risk reward scenario up. Is the risk of me not being able to shoot worth it now?

It makes healing a much more active role rather than a passive role. You can look at Bf3 where they throw down a pack and go straight to shooting. Besides that brief second animation, their healing didnt hinder their offensive capability it actually enhanced it.

So i see it as a good thing.

In principle it's a good thing. The PS1 way was better than PS2 as D2A said, namely if someone is recieving med aid or repair they have to standstill.

It didn't look right. (In all the good things I saw this was a wee bit of a disappointment.)

IMMentat · 2012-06-05, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

How far do they go?

How fast do they heal?

Does their rate of healing/repairing accelerate depending on movement & other factors? (like taking damage mid-heal)

Is there a cooldown?

What are trade-offs for medic (and engineer) class?

Will they stack?

etc etc etc

Underlines are my edits.

I want triage support (out of combat) rather than heal-bot players, but it seems I probably won't get my wish there.
Here's hopeing that PS2 is not the new heavy/medic spamfest (boomers will help for indoor areas, wait a bit then splat goes the medic).

TTK is pretty fast for most targets so unless the healghuns are really ramped up then massed/focussed fire should kill any meatshield quickly enough leaveing a weaponless medic as the second line of attack (bullet magnet).

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-06-05, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by IMMentat

Italics are my edits.

I want triage support (out of combat) rather than heal-bot players, but it seems I probably won't get my wish there.
Here's hopeing that PS2 is not the new heavy/medic spamfest (boomers will help for indoor areas, wait a bit then splat goes the medic).

TTK is pretty high for most targetse so unless the healghuns are really ramped up then massed/focussed fire should kill any meatshield quickly enough leaveing a weaponless medic as the second line of attack (bullet magnet).

I hate to nitpick, but this comes up so often on this forum.

High Time To Kill == Long Time To Kill
Low Time To Kill == Short Time To Kill
Time To Kill == The length of time it takes to kill someone

I know, it's an easy thing to mess up on, but it's this forum's equivalent of Rouge or Turrent.

Your point is valid regardless... don't think that pocket healers will work for this game.

NewSith · 2012-06-05, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by IMMentat

TTK is pretty high for most targetse so unless the healghuns are really ramped up then massed/focussed fire should kill any meatshield quickly enough leaveing a weaponless medic as the second line of attack (bullet magnet).

watch the video I posted and please take a note of when I die in that video, despite being the ONLY medic. If healbeams stack, than however nerfed they be, they will still focus the game around medics.

MOST IMPORTANTLY - heal beams and HoT darts render long-range combat useless, and THAT is my main argument against them. I want PS to be a tactical shooter, not a twitch shooter.

^^^Sirs, you take a note of that too, please^^^

Graywolves · 2012-06-05, 08:48 PM

The only beam I saw was for the engineer being used on a MAX and it looked kind of odd to me.

Will be interesting to see how some of it ends up looking.

edit:
In PS1 I liked going up against the injured under cover with the med app and healing them up. I think doing things beyond a certain range will kill the sense of urgency. I don't mind if it's at most a couple meters and the beam kind of makes sense and isn't just glowing goodness or a scan animation.

Gelnika · 2012-06-05, 08:54 PM

There's really two options that I see for medics, the TF2 style healing gun or the BF style health packs thrown on the ground. I'm personally more a fan of the healing gun because there is more interaction involved in the healing process rather than simply standing on a box some guy threw down, perhaps not even recently. As a medic, I'd find it much more engaging to actually heal someone directly, and as someone seeking a heal, as nice as it would be to stumble upon a health box someone left there 10 minutes ago, it seems impersonal and doesn't lend a whole lot to the aura of teamwork.

TLDR; I like the heal beam.

NewSith · 2012-06-05, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gelnika

There's really two options that I see for medics, the TF2 style healing gun or the BF style health packs thrown on the ground. I'm personally more a fan of the healing gun because there is more interaction involved in the healing process rather than simply standing on a box some guy threw down, perhaps not even recently. As a medic, I'd find it much more engaging to actually heal someone directly, and as someone seeking a heal, as nice as it would be to stumble upon a health box someone left there 10 minutes ago, it seems impersonal and doesn't lend a whole lot to the aura of teamwork.

TLDR; I like the heal beam.

PSide had a med applicator: 10hps, 0m range, it worked fine.

If you add healing beams into PS, they'll turn the game into (see the link below), instead of good tactical moderately-paced shooter:

10vs10, 1 good medic and 9 trololos vs 10 people with several mid-skilled medics an actual working team setup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFZbN3R4RTk

Healbeams is a no-go. Repairbeam I would understand, but not a healbeam.

raidyr · 2012-06-05, 09:05 PM

Having no details as to how exactly the beam works, only that it does seem to be a beam-style system, I much prefer it to the drop and forget "teamwork" instilled box throwing that is Battlefield.

NewSith · 2012-06-05, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by raidyr

Having no details as to how exactly the beam works, only that it does seem to be a beam-style system, I much prefer it to the drop and forget "teamwork" instilled box throwing that is Battlefield.

PSide had a med applicator: 10hps, 0m range, it worked fine.

0m range as in you had to inject healing, not beam it.

Aurmanite · 2012-06-05, 08:49 PM

It looked like the med applicator had a little range on it. Still looks like it's a down time/out of combat tool, especially with the TTK as low as it is.