Adenn's easy to understand TR LMG Analysis

Adenn · 2013-07-21, 07:44 AM

Hey PSU!

I made a rather lengthy post on the TR lmgs (which I consider myself an expert on) and since this is the 1st time I made a post with the length and that informative I've decided to share it with all of you and hear your opnions

I've kept the numbers out of it so some people don't get confused but I do know them so if you wish to get into a statistics battle, go ahead.

So here's a link, combining the format would be to much hell for me to do:

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...alysis.142039/

exohkay · 2013-07-21, 08:36 AM

Nice link.

I don't think the TR LMGs are bad per se, but they all feel very similar, with little visual, auditory or other distinctions.

If they got revamped with different audio and models, they'd be great, but definitely attachments need reworking (for all factions, IMO - some VS weapons have stupid attachments... )

Adenn · 2013-07-21, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by exohkay

Nice link.

I don't think the TR LMGs are bad per se, but they all feel very similar, with little visual, auditory or other distinctions.

If they got revamped with different audio and models, they'd be great, but definitely attachments need reworking (for all factions, IMO - some VS weapons have stupid attachments... )

I can't speak for VS obviously so I won't get into that.

Maybe because you don't play TR enough but I can identify 1 TR LMG from another at a glance. They did remodel some of the guns and for me they are different enough as they are.

Now gameplay related, yes they are very similar. Especially with the T16 and T32 in the middle ground. But if they made it even more different then they would be cardboard cut outs from NC/VS and lose our factions traits (High ROF).

But in the end I agree, they are similar when it comes to gameplay and only top tier TR players notice the differences.

Rolfski · 2013-07-21, 08:57 AM

I consider myself fairly experienced with TR LMG's as well but my conclusions are somewhat different however.

First I would add in statistics to support your conclusions. Secondly, I would add in all LMG's available to TR so Carv S (which is really not the Carv Shit any more since the latest buffs) and NS-15M (good beginner friendly gun but not better than TR LMG's) as well. You could even make a case to include the MCG (great allround gun if you know how to use it) in your analysis to complete the primary guns available to TR HA.

As for your conclusions:
T32 Bull and T16 Rhino are both designed as med range guns imo: T32 as the mobile gun (superior move ads accuracy), T16 as the sustained fire gun (big magazine). The advanced fwd grip (lower horizontal recoil) and higher bullet speed make the T16 the better med-long range gun, the compensator (lower vertical recoil) and hip and ads accuracy makes the T32 the better gun for short-med range. Having said that, the increased hip accuracy on the T32 doesn't make much sense imo. This gun lacks dps to be used in CQB but at least it's nice to have if you run into it.

So I can kinda see what they where thinking with these attachments although I don't necessarily agree to them (2x scopes should be available for all guns).

As a guy who likes to stay mobile and reloads often, I personally prefer the T32 over the T16 for med range fights (Amp stations, Tech plants, etc.) but both are good for that. Anything beyond med range is TMG 50 territory (superior burst fire, damage and accuracy), anything below med range I would take the MSW-R (dps, hipfire) for a LMG.
If you don't know what range you're going to be fighting on, Carv-S is actually not a bad allround option (good dps, good burst fire, good attachments) although I prefer the MCG (with extended mags) for that.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-07-21, 09:22 AM

Ive been using the tmg50 and man it is so buttery smooth to shoot. It also has a nice heavy machinegun sound when you fire it.

Personally I think this gun is an upgrade over the gauss saw. Easy to shoot without a single cert point it has win written all over it.

Adenn · 2013-07-21, 09:40 AM

I spoke mostly about weapons I use. I trialed the NS LMG but hated it so never bought thus I won't comment on it.

Same with the Carv S. I plan on purchasing it and getting auraxium on it but only to get all auraxiums on my TR LMGs (Right now on the T32 Bull). I have 1132 kills with the MCG and have a big opinion on it so if people are really interested in reading my opinion on the MCG I will gladly post it.

The reason for not including stats is in my 1st post.

TL

R I only spoke about things I had experience with, so the Carv S and NS were left out and I consider the MCG irrelevant.

Moving on to your points Rolfski:
The T32's ADS move accuracy is completely irrelevant due to the nerf to adad. So ADS accuracy isn't a good counter-argument for the Bull.

Now your reasoning for using it is fast reload and...ads accuracy I guess?? The MSW-R has a faster reload if I recall and a higher ROF with a easy to compensate recoil (If you have a foregrip and burstfire at mid range). So MSW is imho superior. The 10 extra shots the bull has over the MSW isn't a big factor either imo.

So unless you don't like burst firing (unlike me) I don't see any plus on taking the Bull over the MSW with foregrip. If you don't mind a slightly longer reload but with the benefit of 100 rounds amongst other benefits I won't bother to name, then the T16 easily beats the Bull.

So to finalize this post, I truly believe the Bull needs a buff. It simply isn't worth it in it's current state over the MSW-R(Higher skill required however) or T16 (Even easier to use and more rounds).

Ruffdog · 2013-07-21, 10:49 AM

Thanks for this. Just got finished with my CARV Auraxium and looking forward to using something else now. Possibly Rhino looking at this.

Rolfski · 2013-07-21, 11:21 AM

I disagree that the T16 is easier to use over the T32. On shorter ranges, the lower vertical recoil will make it easier to burst fire headshots with the T32.
And the 0,35 ADS move COF over the 0,4 COF of the T16 still comes in handy if you like to move when shooting, like I do.
On longer ranges, the better horizontal recoil and bullet speed of the T16 will prevail.

And when comparing the T32 with the MSW-R: Beyond 50 metres I would always take the T32. T32 just handles better: lower vertical recoil, lower horizontal recoil, better burst fire, higher bullet speed.

Does that mean the T32 couldn't use a buff? I think it could.
They should remove the hipfire bonuses and instead lower the first shot multiplier to 1,5 times, making it a dedicated med-long range burst fire gun, where the T16 is better for sustained fire. Except for extended mags, both T16 and T32 should share the same attachments, including advanced fwd grip and compensator.
And the ridiculous ammo pool nerf, that never made any sense, should be rewinded.

Btw would love to hear your opinion on the MCG.

Adenn · 2013-07-21, 11:49 AM

I believe then that the T16 and T32 are a matter of preference. While the majority of the player base prefers the T16 (I don't think anyone in FU uses the T32) I suppose some may find the T32 a better choice. Again a matter of opinion

I only have ~300~ kills with the T32 so I'm not that experienced with the weapon either whilst with the T16 I have ~1800~ .

Now I extremely disagree with the notion that the T32 has a superior burst fire to the MSW-R. My problem is the T32 doesn't have enough recoil, I suppose. It simply has such low vertical and horizontal recoil that it is simply better to spray. Same with the T16.

Now the T32 and T16 are so similar to each other that it isn't a big deal to choose one over the other but I still maintain the opinion that the T16 is easier and simply overall better then the T32 for your average player. More ammo, extremely low recoil, tighter COF and high bullet velocity.

Again, I'm thinking on the average player in the case he is looking for a jack of all trade weapons.

As for the MCG, will do a write up.

Rolfski · 2013-07-21, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Adenn

Now I extremely disagree with the notion that the T32 has a superior burst fire to the MSW-R. My problem is the T32 doesn't have enough recoil, I suppose. It simply has such low vertical and horizontal recoil that it is simply better to spray. Same with the T16.

The first shot recoil multiplier for the MSW-R is 2,5. That of the T32 and T16 is 2 (used to be 3 for T16). Now this is very noticeable for burst firing, especially if you take the lower vertical and horizontal recoil of T32/T16 into account.

If you go to VR and start burst firing with these weapons at longer ranges you can test the differences yourself: With the MSW-R your second shot of your burst will simply overshoot more often, making it a worse burst fire weapon.

Btw T16 does NOT have tighter COF vs T32. Check your stats: For most situations T32 has the tighter COF which is why I prefer it over T16.

bpostal · 2013-07-21, 02:42 PM

Nice writeup, it expands my working knowledge beyond simply 'Bang! Bangbangbangbangbang!'

EvilNinjadude · 2013-07-21, 02:53 PM

Damn, I shoulda read this thread first. Now my post over on the official forums is irrelevant.

I might be getting myself the MCG after all. Running around with a Haymaker can get tiring and isn't as effective over medium range.

Thanks for the post, anyway.

Adenn · 2013-07-21, 07:04 PM

My opinion on the current MCG

Short Answer: I hate it.

Long Answer:

I have 1100 kills on the MCG, if you don't believe me check my player stats. So now you know I'm not talking out of my ass.

Anyways, when the game launch I was conflicted with the weapon. I found it highly enjoyable yet I was more effective with my Carv so after 200 kills with the weapon I ended up placing it back in the locker only occasionally taking it out.

Months later when it got a buff and their was the ADS instant shooting bug I used it all the time. You see, I watched a video on youtube about the chain gun which taught you how to properly use it.

I completely loved it and realized that the gun wasn't bad, but rather had a higher skill floor. I won't go into details but it was essentially a full auto sniper rifle whilst being decent at close range.

Then they changed it with the spin up time...then it became useless to me. I can no longer snipe enemies from mid-long range. The ROF gives the enemies a chance to run and by the time I get the highest amount of ROF the COF is far too large for sniping.

At close range the low ROF has gotten me killed many times as well and the TTK in this game is far too low for me to reach the high ROF before one of us dies. The only time the spin up time is useful for me now is when I manage to flank a large group of enemies and mow them all down, other wise and tend to get FF or shoot everything but my enemy due to the COF.

So yeah, I hate the new MCG. I've tried going back to it to get the auraxium medal but I just can't. They made the skill floor/ceiling lower with this remake of it. I wish you could press "B" to have an alternative firing mode without the spin up time because that killed the gun for me.

Falcon_br · 2013-07-22, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Adenn

My opinion on the current MCG

Short Answer: I hate it.

Long Answer:

I have 1100 kills on the MCG, if you don't believe me check my player stats. So now you know I'm not talking out of my ass.

Anyways, when the game launch I was conflicted with the weapon. I found it highly enjoyable yet I was more effective with my Carv so after 200 kills with the weapon I ended up placing it back in the locker only occasionally taking it out.

Months later when it got a buff and their was the ADS instant shooting bug I used it all the time. You see, I watched a video on youtube about the chain gun which taught you how to properly use it.

I completely loved it and realized that the gun wasn't bad, but rather had a higher skill floor. I won't go into details but it was essentially a full auto sniper rifle whilst being decent at close range.

Then they changed it with the spin up time...then it became useless to me. I can no longer snipe enemies from mid-long range. The ROF gives the enemies a chance to run and by the time I get the highest amount of ROF the COF is far too large for sniping.

At close range the low ROF has gotten me killed many times as well and the TTK in this game is far too low for me to reach the high ROF before one of us dies. The only time the spin up time is useful for me now is when I manage to flank a large group of enemies and mow them all down, other wise and tend to get FF or shoot everything but my enemy due to the COF.

So yeah, I hate the new MCG. I've tried going back to it to get the auraxium medal but I just can't. They made the skill floor/ceiling lower with this remake of it. I wish you could press "B" to have an alternative firing mode without the spin up time because that killed the gun for me.

Dude, this is the story of my life and the mcg, the only difference is that I started using it on beta and I also got the day 1 release nerf to it, I think everytime they change the mcg is for the worst.

I have almost all weapons for the heavy assault, the only one missing are the shotguns (only got the full auto), the first generation smg, and the m32.

Comparing the m32 with the ns15, I fail to see where it can be better then the ns15 so probabily I won't ever use it, probabily not this year.
I never use the smg or the battle rifle with the heavy assault.
My load outs are:
Close msw-r and Decimator, msw-r is a waste to use with foregrip, because I really think that for the range it was design, recoil doesn't matter, so I use adv laser sight, silencer, reflex 1x and soft point.
Medium t16 and that anti air lock on launcher, just adv foregrip, I liked the t16 iron sights a lot, and 1,35x is better then 1x reflex, but since it got a new look, it have now the worst iron sight in the game, so now I am using reflex 1x on it. No high velocity so the recoil is small enough to hit multiple rounds on the target.
Long tmg-50 and striker with comp, foregrip, high velocity, reflex 2x.
Crazy mcg and Decimator, extended mags on it, it was with laser sights for a long time, but now it is useless to fire from the hip while moving.
Shotgun, the full auto shotgun and standart rocket launcher with reflex 1x and extended mags.
Mobility ns15 and standart rocket launcher, with foregrip, compensator, soft point and reflex 2x.

I just have one wish, reflex 2x to all weapons in the game, please! It make no sense to all weapons have 3,4 and 4x sights if most of then don't have 2x reflex!
I also use Nanoweaver and adrenaline shield on maximum levels, With c4 and concussion grenade.

Rolfski · 2013-07-22, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Adenn

My opinion on the current MCG

Short Answer: I hate it.

I definitely agree with you it isn't as good any more since they fixed the bug.

It's still a useful allrounder though if you can get around its quirks. It's pinpoint accuracy means that you will literally always land the first 2/3 shots even on long ranged targets before the COF becomes too big. But as your follow-up pinpoint shots take so long, this means that you will never really kill people on these ranges like a TMG-50 or a Sabre13 can. It's still a good deterrent though. Headshotting people at long ranges, which this weapon can do, is usually enough to make them dive for cover.

Between mid and long ranges its TTK is too low in sustained fire fights but on short ranges it can be very powerful if you make a habit of prefiring the gun and raise shields before peeking corners and stay away from hipfiring.