Mines to explode only when driven over and disarmable

Sonny · 2013-03-14, 04:53 AM

Hi all,
Saw this on reddit but no thread here about it.
I'm pretty happy about this change as I think the way AT mines can be thrown around at the moment is pretty lame. What do you guys think about it? Is this the end of the suicidal anti-sunderer engie?

edit: Higby did respond to the possibility that an engie could just explode his mines with a grenade. He also gave further details saying that any class could disarm a mine by shooting it. See the discussion here, important quotes below :

'666 Westy543' who asked:

Okay!

Drop tank mines

Throw grenade

Does add some extra work to it though, it was getting ridiculous."

Higby responded:

In this case we would be allowing the mines to be killed without detonating. Shooting them with smallarms fire would also kill them without detonation, essentially to allow anyone to disarm the mine that some butthole just kamikaze dropped on your sundy without HAVING to be an engineer, as well as making it more than just "Drop them then detonate them"

Sonny

Canaris · 2013-03-14, 05:01 AM

Now that would be very good! I like it

ChipMHazard · 2013-03-14, 05:47 AM

YES! Will we be able to see actual minefields in the near future? I hope so.

Dodgy Commando · 2013-03-14, 06:06 AM

Nice touch about disarming them, too.

JesNC · 2013-03-14, 06:15 AM

While I agree that throwing AT mines like frisbees is lame right now, this change -combined with the change to c4 - is going to make AT mines lame, period.

Badjuju · 2013-03-14, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by JesNC

While I agree that throwing AT mines like frisbees is lame right now, this change -combined with the change to c4 - is going to make AT mines lame, period.

Hopefully people will start using them defensively on roads against upcoming assaults as they did in ps1. With the new hex system you should be able to predict battle flow better and you could potentially mine up an area pretty good before an enemy assault.

Striker KOJ · 2013-03-14, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Badjuju

Hopefully people will start using them defensively on roads against upcoming assaults as they did in ps1. With the new hex system you should be able to predict battle flow better and you could potentially mine up an area pretty good before an enemy assault.

Let us not forget, if the argument for this change is to make it more inline with Planetside 1...

Mines also exploded via proximity in Planetside 1, in addition to being used as defensive area denial.

Badjuju · 2013-03-14, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Striker KOJ

Let us not forget, if the argument for this change is to make it more inline with Planetside 1...

Mines also exploded via proximity in Planetside 1, in addition to being used as defensive area denial.

I wasn't making the argument to put them in line with ps1. Just providing an example of how they can be used defensively. We saw massive mine fields in PS1 which is why I brought it up. Not sure of another game where we have seen this.

Obviously defensive mining would be much different in PS2 as you have less, but more powerful mines that operate slightly different.

Overall point, it would be nice to see them used as a preemptive defense strategy which I think will be good for game play, and a tiny step towards building more of that team/empire based strategic mentality which we eventually saw in PS1.

Just my opinion though.

Cupbearer · 2013-03-14, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Badjuju

I wasn't making the argument to put them in line with ps1. Just providing an example of how they can be used defensively. We saw massive mine fields in PS1 which is why I brought it up. Not sure of another game where we have seen this.

Obviously defensive mining would be much different in PS2 as you have less, but more powerful mines that operate slightly different.

Overall point, it would be nice to see them used as a preemptive defense strategy which I think will be good for game play, and a tiny step towards building more of that team/empire based strategic mentality which we eventually saw in PS1.

Just my opinion though.

Um, btw, the sniper is going to disarm all of your mines. Duh!!! one shot to disarm and not even have to worry about them blowing up.

Selerox · 2013-03-16, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by Badjuju

Hopefully people will start using them defensively on roads against upcoming assaults as they did in ps1.

Pretty much the only time I mine-drop a Sundy is when I'm on the defensive. There's no need to otherwise. Sometimes it's pretty much the only way to save a small base under attack.

I'm very much of the viewpoint that if you leave a Sundy unguarded and get mine-dropped, you deserve what you get. If an engineer can make it to a Sundy undetected and mine-drop it, he deserves the XP.

I'm obviously in the minority though...

Dodgy Commando · 2013-03-14, 06:23 AM

Mines actually working like mines hasn't broken any other games that employ them correctly (i.e. BF3 and PS1 to mention but them).

I don't care if it makes some people cry because they can't frisbee kill a vehicle anymore. Lamest thing ever.

Kerrec · 2013-03-14, 08:33 AM

As frustrating as having your Sunderer insta-killed by mines is, this proposed change is going to cripple defensive efforts.

This game, as it is now, is about controlling spawns. If you attack, you have to push defenders off the points and corner them in their spawnrooms.

As defenders, you have to take out enemy spawn points as fast as they come, or else at the very best, you have a never ending battle.

If mines become a non-threat to parked sunderers, then Blockade armor will be THE defacto choice. That means Sunderers will become much stronger versus other vehicles and HA rockets.

I've seen many "arguments" that a team using a sunderer should require a team to take out a sunderer. However, when I play, I see teams trying vainly to hold points (bases and points not really designed for defense) while one or two guys try to take out the sunderer. So the whole "suicide engy" vs. Team argument is flawed IMO. There IS a team effort against the Sunderer, it's just not all focused AT the Sunderer. THIS is what people fail to see and understand.

Making Sunderers harder to kill is going to cripple defenses even more.

One last point: I'll just spec into sticky grenades now. So it will be click-click-G instead of click-click.

Canaris · 2013-03-14, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Kerrec

As frustrating as having your Sunderer insta-killed by mines is, this proposed change is going to cripple defensive efforts.

This game, as it is now, is about controlling spawns. If you attack, you have to push defenders off the points and corner them in their spawnrooms.

As defenders, you have to take out enemy spawn points as fast as they come, or else at the very best, you have a never ending battle.

If mines become a non-threat to parked sunderers, then Blockade armor will be THE defacto choice. That means Sunderers will become much stronger versus other vehicles and HA rockets.

I've seen many "arguments" that a team using a sunderer should require a team to take out a sunderer. However, when I play, I see teams trying vainly to hold points (bases and points not really designed for defense) while one or two guys try to take out the sunderer. So the whole "suicide engy" vs. Team argument is flawed IMO. There IS a team effort against the Sunderer, it's just not all focused AT the Sunderer. THIS is what people fail to see and understand.

Making Sunderers harder to kill is going to cripple defenses even more.

One last point: I'll just spec into sticky grenades now. So it will be click-click-G instead of click-click.

That's what C4 is for, the use of mines with this tactic was poor design choice from the start.

BlazingSun · 2013-03-14, 10:11 AM

I never understood why you can throw around the AV mines, but can't do the same with a simple ammo pack.

Kerrec · 2013-03-14, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Canaris

That's what C4 is for, the use of mines with this tactic was poor design choice from the start.

Matter of opinion, but whatever.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if this makes it Live, then the second I can refund my certs, I will get rid of Mines on my engineer. In situations where I want to kill a Sunderer, I will resort to a HA with 2x C4 and a dumbfire rocket. I will also refund my Mineguard certs on my Sunderer...

People that want their "minefields" can waste their certs and resources killing flashes, but I won't.

This change will make mines not worth certing into, and will make Mineguard redundant. Get ready to see every non utility Sundy packing Blockade armor. Gratz on making Mineguard "not a requirement" while making Blockade the obvious choice to take since it reduces every other source of damage (can't possibly be biased towards Blockade, right!?)

No one bothers to discuss the issue that defense is already VERY difficult. Making Sunderers harder to kill is only going to make that WORSE.