Gameplay: Assault/Riot Shields

Brusi · 2011-08-18, 01:33 AM

So in Planetside 2, the time to kill is going to be lower than in Planetside. (See this thread and many more for TTK discussion)

I would love to see an infantry item, perhaps only equipable by REXO users that allows for increased frontal armor, that will still allow a certain level of meaningful, slightly less than completely suicidal infantry assault.

Of course it should be balanced to stop shield users being indestructble one man armies, but i don't think it would be that hard to include a balanced, defensive, tactical infantry option.

Personally i think that the idea is both cool, and that it would fit in with parts of PS/PS2's tower/base and urban combat styles.

What do ya rekon?

Sirisian · 2011-08-18, 02:10 AM

heh awesome. Yeah sounds like a sane upgrade for some players. As long as it has say a slight reduction in rotation/movement speed then it sounds awesome.

There's a thread on dual-wielding right now where these kinds of ideas could come into play. Seems like a nice way to defend a base or to push in. I could see a person with one pushing an entrance with people behind them.

Graywolves · 2011-08-18, 03:51 AM

It'd be interesting to see, not sure how I feel about it though.

What I end up seeing is a few MAX units with shields between them to cover the repairs and medics. It kinda seems awesome.

If it were to be added I think it would be post-launch. The usefulness feels a little too situational as well.

Talek Krell · 2011-08-18, 04:24 AM

Nonsense. An idea this reasonable has no place in the dual wielding thread!

I could see this as one of the more esoteric options for assault infantry. Make them cumbersome and bulky, and limit the weapons available like in that picture and they could be a good addition to the game. Might have to experiment a bit before you found just how much protective power to give them.

Baron · 2011-08-18, 11:15 AM

no...absolutely not,

Having logged thousands of hours in Rainbow Six Vegas:2, using the shield will get you booted/banned from every server. Why?

Because it's abused as a crutch for people who have no skill.

So many people on these forums preach about skill and are against concepts that cater to those without, but this thread gets 5 stars? Fucking ridiculous.

For clarification, this is not a personal attack on the OP but is based on having much experience with a shield in a video game. All it does is promote camping / lameness.

Sirisian · 2011-08-18, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Baron

So many people on these forums preach about skill and are against concepts that cater to those without, but this thread gets 5 stars? Fucking ridiculous.

I'm not sure you've played Planetside. The objective is usually to take territory or hold it. You either are constantly moving or defending. Very rarely does the game encourage camping except as a legitimate tactic for defending.

Also not everyone is for skill. Some people just want teamwork based items that can be used with a squad.

Baron · 2011-08-18, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I'm not sure you've played Planetside. The objective is usually to take territory or hold it. You either are constantly moving or defending. Very rarely does the game encourage camping except as a legitimate tactic for defending.

Also not everyone is for skill. Some people just want teamwork based items that can be used with a squad.

If it was used for just defending that might be an ideal tool, however it won't be. Also, your passive-aggressive opening statement is a nice touch, what do you think champ?

Brusi · 2011-08-18, 09:47 PM

Besides Barons's fear of it becoming a cheap solo tactic, I still think it could be balanced to avoid/limit "camping / lameness".

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Also not everyone is for skill. Some people just want teamwork based items that can be used with a squad.

I have to agree with this point. There are many "skillless" gamers that like to play MMO's. Players who might suck at aiming, but are fantastic tacticians or insightful stategists for example. Allowing these types of players to also gain enjoyment through creating meaningful, multifaceted gameplay will help to keep the "Massively" in this MMO.

However, i don't think utilising tactics and teamwork is in fact skillless. Ever heard of good communication being referred to as a skill?

I swear, sometimes i think people just dislike anything that stops their killing spree, or makes them have to rethink their own tactics.

Talek Krell · 2011-08-18, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Baron

Because it's abused as a crutch for people who have no skill.

And you're calling him passive aggressive? I'm not sure precisely how the shields work in rainbow six, but in a world of rocket launchers, grenades, and high caliber anti-infantry weapons I see no reason these couldn't be balanced. Perhaps you'd like to explain further?

Raymac · 2011-08-18, 02:48 PM

I like the concept, but I like it alot more if it was an attachment for a Max unit. They could have a shield instead of a gun, which means they are almost worthless by themselves, but with teamwork it would be a very effective way to break into a well defended area. It really wouldn't be all that different from the current NC Max special ability shield which can only be used if you arn't firing.

I just imagine a Max unit walking through a doorway taking all sorts of focus fired bullets but still pushing through while his team fans out behind him to clear the room.

Huma · 2011-08-18, 10:30 PM

I actually like this idea. If they are anything like shields in MW2 then their perfect. Reduced mobility and you were still vulnerable if you moved to fast. Not to mention you leave yourself open for an AV hit.

Edit: I just realized how awesome this idea would ne with body dragging. Shield goes out and provides cover while the medic drgs the victim to safety. ^_^

exLupo · 2011-08-19, 03:07 AM

I didn't play R6V long enough to see this become an auto-ban but I can imagine how it went down. I'm picturing this in PS1 and on a fence. Not for its use as a solo tactic. I really don't see a pistol standing up against a full kit Rexo. The soloists will pick something different. My concern is whether or not it'll stand up against a general assault at all. Grenades, AV, MAXes, the whole kit.

Dunno, chalk it up to super future energy barriers maybe? There is a tactical niche with this that was missing in PS1.

Would it be an ablative or a permanent device? Would you need to sacrifice a big slot for it? Would it replace a backpack? I assume you will be able to use a pistol with it equipped, how much would it impact accuracy?

Talek Krell · 2011-08-19, 05:15 AM

I'm about to go to bed so this will be a hackjob, but here's one idea for people to dissect:

"Assault Shield". Available along the defensive branch of the Heavy Assault Specialist cert tree. Takes up a large weapon slot. I envision an HA specialist having only one of these slots, so they'd have to choose between a shield and an MCG/JH/Lasher.

The shield is drawn and holstered like a regular weapon, but is compatible with a pistol slot weapon such as a pistol or grenade (May be a bad method. Alternatives: Have the shield draw automatically when when a pistol is drawn? Have the shield itself be a shield/pistol combo in a single slot? Don't let them use a weapon at the same time at all?). You press a toggle button to raise and lower the shield, which also lowers and raises the pistol. No using both simultaneously.

How the shield itself works depends a lot on how vehicle and MAX armor will work in PS2. I envision it like a plate of vehicle armor strapped to an arm. You could have it be impervious to small arms fire and explosions (provided the shield is between the explosion and the user) but almost useless against AV. Or if the game is more PS1 like then it could just be an extra armor bar with MAX resistance values. If destroying it doesn't kill the user outright then it could be repairable by an engineer.

And now sleep.

**Malorn** · 2011-08-20, 09:18 AM

I think the idea of indoor armor that infantry can hide behind so as to give an advantage to an attacker as opposed to a camper is good; the key is implementation such that it isn't abused.

But in Planetside MAX units are "indoor armor" so having a tactical shield users that assault infantry can hide behind may detract from MAX users and steal a bit of their value. MAX basically have all the key points required to balance shields - vehicle class armor, slower speed, except they also have massive weapons capable of a lot of killing power on them. They're intended to be breachers, so having an infantry tactical shield for the purpose of breaching does encroach on the MAX role.

I would prefer MAX units to continue to have this role in Planetside. I want infantry and MAX to be combined arms that reward players for teamwork and tactical diversity and not allow infantry alone to have means of compensating for not having MAX.

Want a shield? Bring a MAX. You'd be more effective anyway since you'd have 360-degree shield and good weaponry.

RedKnights · 2011-08-20, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

I would prefer MAX units to continue to have this role in Planetside. I want infantry and MAX to be combined arms that reward players for teamwork and tactical diversity and not allow infantry alone to have means of compensating for not having MAX.

Want a shield? Bring a MAX. You'd be more effective anyway since you'd have 360-degree shield and good weaponry.

I'm in total agreement I do think the MAX fits the niche of "tactical shield" very well.

However, I think the idea of giving a MAX unit a huge buff in armor in return for no weapon is also worth exploring, that way you could at least breach into a doorway and have people pile in behind the shielded MAX unit. That idea I like a lot.

As for balancing issues, if it WAS an infantry carried weapon, and you could only use a pistol, that seems like balance to me, but the switch from shield to weapon should be BRUTALLY slow.

Also, the idea the weapon can take a certain amount of damage too is cool. I picture a kind of energy shield that will at a certain point "snap" and will need to cooldown, similar to HALO's energy shield, but just in a handheld device.