Be Constructive when referencing PlanetSide 1

Hamma · 2013-02-26, 10:50 AM

Something needs to be said and it's time to say it.

Every time this community brings up PlanetSide 1 in an argument or statement about PlanetSide 2 you make this community less and less relevant. PlanetSide 1 was ten years ago, we now have PlanetSide 2 and this forum in particular focuses on PlanetSide 2.

PlanetSide 2 is not PlanetSide 1. We all wanted PlanetSide 2 and now that it's out we cannot stop talking about PlanetSide 1. It was a great game, in 2003. It's now 2013 and we have PlanetSide 2. Let's focus on that game and stop dwelling on the past because it's gone and as Smed said almost nobody is logged into it and it will remain that way even if it's added to the membership.

In development the Developers looked to us for Feedback from experience. Now that the game is out they still look to us but they will look to us for improvements to the EXISTING game and not constant railing about how PlanetSide 1 was better.

If you guys want this community to remain relevant you are going to have to let go of PlanetSide 1. There's lots we can learn from it but we cannot allow nostalgia to dominate the discussions about this new game PlanetSide 2

Gaming communities have been killed by this sort of non productiveness in the past and it will kill this one as well if we don't learn to let go.

EDIT: This right here is exactly what I mean:

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

This isn't about forgetting about Planetside 1, it's about keeping topics that have to do with Planetside 1 in the Planetside 1 forum. When the devs come along and look at the Planetside 2 forum they probably don't want to be discussing Planetside 1.
This also isn't about not taking anything from Planetside 1 because it's an old game but that just because something was in Planetside 1 it shouldn't automatically be in Planetside 2. If a feature worked in Planetside 1 then make a case as to why it should be included in Planetside 2, stating that it worked in Planetside 1 isn't an argument in on itself (in many cases anyway).

In addition..

Another thing you guys need to remember is railing on PlanetSide 1 constantly isn't going to all of a sudden reveal some massive crazy idea the PlanetSide 2 developers don't already know about. I've had the pleasure of talking to many developers of the game at length including Smed himself. Heck Malorn works on the team now and many of us read his breakdown on PlanetSide 1. There are TONS of folks working on this team that either worked on, or played PlanetSide 1 extensively.

They are all well aware of what PlanetSide 1 offered and the systems it contained. What is being brought up is not a magical solution that all of a sudden reveals itself.

I'm not asking everyone to forget the game but you have to realize that the game is not forgotten. SOE knows what was in the game and what will work in the new game. If you do think something from PS1 will work in it by all means post it, in a constructive way.

Crator · 2013-02-26, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

If you guys want this community to remain relevant you are going to have to let go of PlanetSide 1. There's lots we can learn from it but we cannot allow nostalgia to dominate the discussions about this new game PlanetSide 2.

This just silly Hamma, lot's of things we can learn from PS1 but don't bring it up so much? Why pussyfoot around it? I just don't get that.

Jennyboo · 2013-02-26, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Crator

This just silly Hamma, lot's of things we can learn from PS1 but don't bring it up so much? Why pussyfoot around it? I just don't get that.

Hamma is someone who has run this community for 10 plus year and is concerned where this community direction is going. It's not pussyfooting around it simply stating if this community keep on the same track of the one track (Planetside 1) mind then you will make our community irrelevant. Sometimes the truth is hard to hear THIS ISN'T PLANETSIDE 1 simple and to the point. Instead of dwelling on the past look to the future and how we can contribute relevant constructive idea's to make this game what we'd play for a long time. I know people have a hard time letting go but the sooner people do the sooner we can all work toward helping the devs make this a game to last the ages.

Empra · 2013-02-26, 12:20 PM

I agree

I think people are dissapointed that PS2 lacks the same depth as PS1 but you have to remember that PS1 on release was nowhere near as deep as it ended up, you are comparing a game with almost 10 years devtime to a newly released game and it just isn't valid.

People rage about bugs and issues they have and say things along the lines of "OMG HOW HARD IS IT TO XXXX!" or "HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO XXX!? WHY AREN't YOU DOING XXXX FIRST?"

You are all entitled to your opinon just remember, unless you are qualified and educated in the development field you are talking about then you have little right to make demands regarding development. Just vote on the road map :/.

A lot of the devs MADE PS1 and I think they know already how it worked, when you spam "MAKE IT LIKE PS1" at them they are going to take you less seriously. When you make a game you have to make it relevant and accessible because you want people to play it, partly because you love it and partly because YOU NEED TO MAKE MONEY OR THE GAME WILL DIE.

PS1 does not have the accessibility and tropes that people expect from modern fps, what PS2 does is take the philosophy of PS1 and try and make a game relevant to modern times, yet retaining the soul of the original.

The reason it isn't just how you like it right now is because the business model requires ongoing development, you are making a risk when you make a game and release it for free. You put up the capital to create the game and you need to make a return to feed all those employees etc. It would of taken another year of devtime to get all the features people ask for put in.

F2P business models are the only way to compete in a saturated market.

In the current economic climate low risks are favourable and if it wasn't for this dev model it may not have been made.

I know I went on a tangent but the above highlights why PS1 is now irrelevant apart from important lessons, that the devs already know.

P.S. The PS1 f2p thing will never happen, you would have to spend more than you would make converting it into f2p and managing the servers, unfortunately it will die, though I hope someone keeps the code for the history books.

Crator · 2013-02-26, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Empra

You are all entitled to your opinon just remember, unless you are qualified and educated in the development field you are talking about then you have little right to make demands regarding development. Just vote on the road map :/.

If that's the case these forums shouldn't exist. No need to post about and discuss things you can't possible have any influence over, right? Or perhaps just allow threads that talk about things that are already in the game or on the road map. All other threads unrealted to those other two things should not be allowed. Like you said, just use the road map...

Wahooo · 2013-02-26, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Empra

I think people are dissapointed that PS2 lacks the same depth as PS1 but you have to remember that PS1 on release was nowhere near as deep as it ended up, you are comparing a game with almost 10 years devtime to a newly released game and it just isn't valid.

The rage come from this. 10 years of devtime to increase the depth of the game just dropped and ignored.

Yes Ps2 is a different game, but c'mon there is a lot of crap to this game as well. Look at all the posts about this constant 3-way that is Ti/X-road/Crown indarside.
Look at the 3 factions with faction specific weapons/specialties and try and maintain balance.
Look at the idea of a persistent world war with continental faction battles.
Look at massive scale non-instanced combined arms combat.
Look at the potential for large player co-op groups and need for communication.

There are so many aspects of the game it is near impossible to bring up and not talk about what worked AND WHAT DIDN"T in PS1.

There ARE things they seem to have looked at and learned from PS1, I think that credit is being lost a lot. The faction differences and balance is a big one. That is a HUGE task, and I think they are doing a pretty decent job. But STILL there are aspects of PS2 that ARE NOT WORKING, and they DID work in PS1. I just don't know how we are supposed to just forget about that.

Tatwi · 2013-02-26, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Crator

This just silly Hamma, lot's of things we can learn from PS1 but don't bring it up so much? Why pussyfoot around it? I just don't get that.

I agree.

While there are some horrendously nonobjective Planetside zealots around here, who are quite frankly exceedingly obnoxious with their constant clamoring to display how awesome PS1 was, it would silly to ignore the lessons learned from Planetside simply due to how annoying these people are.

Planetside had some genuinely good game design concepts, artwork/aesthetic, and music/sounds. Objectively, it is important to keep these things in mind, as they are part of what makes the Planetside franchise unique in the marketplace.

Less ridiculous fanboyism and more objectivity would be very much appreciated though.

Also, it's important for SOE to apply what they have learned as an MMO company to the development of PS2. The community management tools in Everquest II are second to none in the industry and that level of detail should be applied to all of their products, especially PS2. All the content in PS2 is 100% generated by the players, so the need a very robust guild system, along with community building game play system, such as "player cities" or "guild housing" that other SOE titles had almost a decade ago.

At the end of the day, I think this sentiment that folks who bring up PS1 all the time are getting at: SOE has experience, success and some really well thought out solutions that it would be silly to ignore. There's absolutely no reason why one cannot keep plowing headlong toward the future, while also standing upon the successes of their past.

Hamma · 2013-02-26, 11:00 AM

It's a new game with new systems, got an idea for improvement post it and don't prefix it with "In PlanetSide 1 X Happened" because this isn't PlanetSide 1 and if we constantly talk about it we will kill this community and SOE will take us less and less seriously.

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-26, 11:04 AM

Every time someone brings up Diablo 2, Diablo 3 becomes less relevant.

Every time someone brings up Fable 1, Fable 3 becomes less relevant.

Every time someone brings up Civilization 3, Civ 4 becomes less relevant.

Every time someone brings up Natural selection 2, Aliens:Colonial marines becomes less relevant.

Every time we see a system in PS2 that was solved 10 years ago, PS2 becomes less relevant.

Right about the time they are done putting all the session based systems in a persistent game, Planetside 2 will not be relevant.

CrazEpharmacist · 2013-02-26, 11:03 AM

Yes, this makes sense. Try to keep the PS1 discussion in the PS1 sub-section.

Crator · 2013-02-26, 11:06 AM

Still don't agree that mentioning PS1 systems that could work in PS2 is making PS2 less relevant. Is this a forum rule now or something?

MrBloodworth · 2013-02-26, 11:10 AM

Your are right!

Battlefield is likely the more relateable product.

This is stupid Hamma, and you know it. You cant ask people not to compare Very Similar games that have the same name. Perhaps the designers ( Not all ) want to ignore the predecessor. But that's why they have the manufactured problems they have.

YOU CANT LOOK TO THE FUTURE WITH OUT RECOGNIZING THE PAST.

Its your ball game though.

Hamma · 2013-02-26, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

This is stupid Hamma, and you know it. You cant ask people not to compare Very Similar games that have the same name. Perhaps the designers ( Not all ) want to ignore the predecessor. But that's why they have the manufactured problems they have.

You are entitled to think what you want. I've been doing communities for a long time and I know the tell tale signs. Do you want the developers to take our feedback seriously? Quit it with the "In PS1 we had enter and exit animations" "In PS1 we had this and this and that"

Or you can not listen to me and see the results.

ZoranTheBear · 2013-02-26, 11:12 AM

I agree that people shouldn't focus so much on Planetside 1. It's had it's run.

But, I do not agree we should ignore it completely. Especially some of the mechanics that are in the the first one, which would greatly enhance the experience in Planetside 2.

It's not a bad idea to take good ideas from previous titles, and apply them to new ones. In fact it's a smart move. WoW did it with Everquest. Hell Everquest 2 did it with it's previous title. Why not here?

I believe Planetside 2 should be taking the good from other shooters(It already has too. Taking ideas from battlefield) and it's older half. And I'm with people who are on that side. I want the Lattice System, I want the resource/energy base mechanics Planetside 1 did. But I have to directly reference Planetside 2 to do so, since it's this game's prequel and best example to showcase the idea. And we must improve from the original title, not go down from it.

Once again, I agree we should stop trying to make it 100% Planetside 1 HD. But, it wouldn't hurt to have the awesome features and mechanics that the original had.
It should be building up and modernizing from the first that people loved. Not ignoring the first and taking a different turn entirely that may or may not be received well.

ChipMHazard · 2013-02-26, 11:19 AM

This isn't about forgetting about Planetside 1, it's about keeping topics that have to do with Planetside 1 in the Planetside 1 forum. When the devs come along and look at the Planetside 2 forum they probably don't want to be discussing Planetside 1.
This also isn't about not taking anything from Planetside 1 because it's an old game but that just because something was in Planetside 1 it shouldn't automatically be in Planetside 2. If a feature worked in Planetside 1 then make a case as to why it should be included in Planetside 2, stating that it worked in Planetside 1 isn't an argument in on itself (in many cases anyway).
This of course doesn't mean that one shouldn't ever bring up Planetside 1 in a discussion about Planetside 2 as it can be entirely relevant to do so, but bringing up "when is Planetside 1 going free to play?" isn't relevant to a thread about cheating in Planetside 2.

I do not understand why people have a tendency to exaggerate when they read something like this thread.