Rethinking Vehicle Air Tranport

[Talek Krell]

The recent Galaxy/Lodestar discussions have gotten me thinking a bit about how the Lodestar was actually used in PS1 and why, and I think the subject would benefit from some discussion.

While the Lodestar had 2 roles it was almost never actually used for vehicle transport. A number of us have been clamoring for a vehicle transport module on the Gal, but there wouldn't be much point if it never saw use so I'd like to discuss why the Lody was used the way it was and what we might do to make air transport a more attractive option.

My thoughts

Problems with the original model:
1. Low impact: Dropping a single vehicle into a battle didn't generally have much of an effect. If you dropped your cargo just behind friendly lines then you'd slightly reduced the travel time of one vehicle, so you weren't exactly turning the tide of battle. A Lodestar could, hypothetically, have made repeated trips to reduce the average travel time from v-pad to combat zone, but that lead to problem 3. If you dropped a vehicle behind enemy lines then Fun could ensue, but the thing wasn't likely to last long. Dropping numerous vehicles at once could alleviate this but that lead to problem 2.
2. Inefficient: One pilot for each vehicle to be dropped was a requirement that became increasingly problematic if one wanted to move multiple vehicles. In practice this usually meant that air transport was only used to move single high impact vehicles like AMSes and the occasional Sunderer.
3. Logistical hurdles: Airlifting reinforcements is a great way to reinforce a front line, but doing so effectively requires coordination between the pilot and the potential air liftees to arrange for timely pickup at the v-pad or interception mid journey. PS1 did nothing to facilitate this, and I dare say it never actually occurred.

Potential solutions to the issues:
1&2. Allow multiple vehicles to be carried: Allowing a Galaxy with a vehicle carry mod (henceforth "Galstar" >.>) to drop a small combat group would make air transport a more efficient use of manpower and resources and also allow a single pilot to create a more significant impact on the battlefield. The ideal would probably be a hook system ala Supreme Commander: A Galstar would have X number of transport hooks and each vehicle would take up a certain number of them. Example: A Galstar with 8 hooks might carry 8 ATVs at 1 hook each, an MBT at 4 hooks with 2 Lightnings to back it up at 2 each, or a single Sundy at 6 hooks with 2 ATVs to scout for it.
3. Use the mission system: Allowing vehicle owners to set a mission on themselves requesting transport to a target area or pilots to set waypoints for pickup and dropoff would go a long way to facilitating transport as a viable full time support activity.

[DayOne]

I would very, very much like to see this sort of game play at some point in the future of planetside, it's one of the thing I love about it.

Sure there's scale, but without the vehicles and logistics needed to mount a successful attack PS2 will just be 2000 dudes in a field.

[Zekeen]

I like the idea of multiple vehicles, ONLY if they are LIGHT vehicles. Carrying heavy vehicles should call for a new HEAVY transport that is very expensive.

The idea of setting up missions is VERY VERY nice, I like the idea to set up a gathering area for drop troops. As a Galaxy specialist, I love this idea,

Now, why didn't you post this in the IDEA section? It's set up for this sort of post for a reason - so it doesn't get lost among the basic discussion.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by Zekeen

Now, why didn't you post this in the IDEA section? It's set up for this sort of post for a reason - so it doesn't get lost among the basic discussion.

I wanted to generate some discussion and refine the idea a bit, and the idea forum seems to generate less traffic for that sort of thing. I think a lot of people don't check it. We'll still get this put up in there later though.

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

The problem with hauling multiple tanks would be the thing would have to be pretty dang large.
Unless.. maybe.. I think i have an idea for a cool concept. I shall play around with it a bit.

That did occur to me, but I had no easy fix for it and put it on the back burner. Xyntech's suggestion of having the vehicle telescope out after leaving the pad might work. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I'm loving your developments of the mission system idea. It will be awesome if they apply it that way.

Originally Posted by PeteHMB

Looking at pics though, I don't see why Sunderers should take up more slots than an MBT.

It's a balance issue, as you suspected. In addition to what other people have pointed out I'd also add that last I knew the Sundy still has its EMP blast. You could already do some crazy stuff just dropping one of those in PS1. Of course the balance is very subject to discussion, I'm hardly an authority on the vehicle balance of PS2.

[Retrograde]

I like the idea of choosing a load out option for the Galaxy on spawn (perhaps bought with certs):


A: 15 people / Max
B: 5 light vehicles (any combination)
C: 3 MBT's
D: 1 Sunderer

More you carry D>A, the slower you fly.

With this setup, gals could really turn that "forward base" concept into reality.

[Brusi]

Mini Warp Gates (Vehicle only Router):

Perhaps a device (or galaxy mod) that allows vehicles to pass through from a predeployed warp gate behind friendly lines, to the staging point where the device is deployed behind enemy lines.

Rather than allowing a whole bunch of vehicles to come through in quick succession, perhaps it could work on a cooldown timer (like the TF2 Teleporter Pad). Might be worth limiting how many vehicles it can warp though in total too. Having a limit based on each warp depleting nanites from the device in a similar way that Talek's hooks work.

i.e. one device allows you to port in 2 x MBT's or 1 x MBT' + 2LHT or 8 x ATV etc...

[Galapogos]

I would love to see this implemented, however it would have to be done properly, otherwise vehicle transports would not see much use, and I think the devs really want to avoid putting stuff in the game that won't be used. For air transports to be efficient enough to actually be used often, their advantages on the battlefield would definitely have to out way their cost as well as the effort put into performing their role. So some essential requirements to achieve this would be:

-The ability to transport multiple vehicles, probably at least three MBT's like retrograde suggested.
-The ability to get vehicles to a destination considerably faster than most vehicles.
-The ability to pickup and deliver unmanned vehicles.
-Enough armor and defensive weapons to make a fully manned transport capable of defending itself from small amounts of enemy air and AA.

[Skepsiis]

I personaly love the concept of vehicle air transport for planetside 2 and was a fan of the lodestar from the first game (except the look).

I really like what was mentioned regarding utilising the mission system for transport requests or designating rally points for collection. I would expand this to include escort request missions for fighter escort, perhaps allow transport pilots to designate a pick up point, the intended route, and a destination, that potential passengers could see if they click on the pickup point on their map, and so that the pilot has some waypoints to follow. Maybe allow them to offer multiple options to vehicles who request theride from the pilot so they can pick their route and destination from multiple options setup by the pilot (east or west side of base for insersion, fast and dangerous route or slow and safe, etc).

This could also be something issued by a commander who sets a transport mission and then multiple pilots could ferry hardware from say, a base, through the valley and onto the frontline from a flanking position. And escort pilots could also sign ontk the mission and fly air patrol. This would be quite awesome on a large scale imo.

I would want to see an improvement over the system for loading a vehicle over the old lodestar because finding somewhere to land and then have the vehicle drive on was a pain. The skyhook from supreme commander was mentioned for carrying but i would love to see something like this for pickup. For those that dont know the transport in supreme commander kind of comes in close to the vehicles it is picking up and sort of tractor beams them up and secures them onto its side with mag locks or whatever. This would speed things up and allow for pickups without needing a massive zone for safe landing and combined with some sort of emergncy transport request could lead to some epic pickups in a hot zone or saving a friendly who is being chased, to save their expensive speced out vehicles.

Visually, i would love to see something like the command and conquer carry all (google it, it looks great) but with some kind of 4 point laser tractor beam system instead of a junkyard magnetic crane styled grabber.

[Alduron]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

The recent Galaxy/Lodestar discussions have gotten me thinking a bit about how the Lodestar was actually used in PS1 and why, and I think the subject would benefit from some discussion.

While the Lodestar had 2 roles it was almost never actually used for vehicle transport. A number of us have been clamoring for a vehicle transport module on the Gal, but there wouldn't be much point if it never saw use so I'd like to discuss why the Lody was used the way it was and what we might do to make air transport a more attractive option.

My thoughts

Problems with the original model:
1. Low impact: Dropping a single vehicle into a battle didn't generally have much of an effect. If you dropped your cargo just behind friendly lines then you'd slightly reduced the travel time of one vehicle, so you weren't exactly turning the tide of battle. A Lodestar could, hypothetically, have made repeated trips to reduce the average travel time from v-pad to combat zone, but that lead to problem 3. If you dropped a vehicle behind enemy lines then Fun could ensue, but the thing wasn't likely to last long. Dropping numerous vehicles at once could alleviate this but that lead to problem 2.
2. Inefficient: One pilot for each vehicle to be dropped was a requirement that became increasingly problematic if one wanted to move multiple vehicles. In practice this usually meant that air transport was only used to move single high impact vehicles like AMSes and the occasional Sunderer.
3. Logistical hurdles: Airlifting reinforcements is a great way to reinforce a front line, but doing so effectively requires coordination between the pilot and the potential air liftees to arrange for timely pickup at the v-pad or interception mid journey. PS1 did nothing to facilitate this, and I dare say it never actually occurred.

Potential solutions to the issues:
1&2. Allow multiple vehicles to be carried: Allowing a Galaxy with a vehicle carry mod (henceforth "Galstar" >.>) to drop a small combat group would make air transport a more efficient use of manpower and resources and also allow a single pilot to create a more significant impact on the battlefield. The ideal would probably be a hook system ala Supreme Commander: A Galstar would have X number of transport hooks and each vehicle would take up a certain number of them. Example: A Galstar with 8 hooks might carry 8 ATVs at 1 hook each, an MBT at 4 hooks with 2 Lightnings to back it up at 2 each, or a single Sundy at 6 hooks with 2 ATVs to scout for it.
3. Use the mission system: Allowing vehicle owners to set a mission on themselves requesting transport to a target area or pilots to set waypoints for pickup and dropoff would go a long way to facilitating transport as a viable full time support activity.

I literally agree with every single character written.

[PeteHMB]

Originally Posted by Alduron

I literally agree with every single character written.

+1. The 2 MBTs / 4 lightnings / etc setup is exactly what I had in mind. Looking at pics though, I don't see why Sunderers should take up more slots than an MBT. I think 2 Sunderers would fit fine size-wise, but I could also then see the loadout being exploited to double the carrying capacity of personnel in that Gal. Still, if that's how someone wanted to do things, I think it'd be awesome to take a Galaxy + 2 sunderers full of people into battle, drop the Sundies off to flank around the back of a tower while the Galaxy crew assaults the front...I mean, that's a full platoon right there. You'd be a big fat target, though still faster than either Sunderer alone, and would have to coordinate with other air crews for defense, but it would lead to some interesting tactics!

[Koenside]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

3. Use the mission system: Allowing vehicle owners to set a mission on themselves requesting transport to a target area or pilots to set waypoints for pickup and dropoff would go a long way to facilitating transport as a viable full time support activity.

I like this. Incentive for the pilot with a direct reward like xp. Like a 'taxi' mission for pilots.

[Unforgiven]

i like the mission system one. but i think we are looking at it on too small of a scale, for example. have a group of 4 or 5 guys in transports with a mission up saying somthing like "support :vehicle transport" then somone can use the mission system to "hire" them in order for both teams to complete their objectives more efficiently than on their own.

[Retrograde]

...use the mission system to "hire" them in order for both teams to complete their objectives...

I agree with all the above, especially this.

There should be a system that allows for multi-vehicle transport (given some restrictions), and a means to "request" a pick up / drop off.



IMHO, the way it's designed now, people will just two man (pilot and tail gunner) a gal spawn into position (like an ams+1), then zerg the base. Everyone else loads a single person vehicle to get to the new target. If you die, spawn @ galaxy.

Two person team takes turns loading galaxies to effectively cut the spawn timer in half. E.g. one gal on the ground, one inbound at all times.

Galaxy is just the new ams. Pretty weak if you ask me.

[Vamp Hunter]

These seem like good ideas, carrying just one vehicle seems inefficient and ineffective so I agree there should be a way to carry more.

Also a mission for asking for transport is a great idea. It rewards the driver/pilot with XP for helping and gets the passenger where they want to go quicker then them spamming chat.

[laelgon]

I really like the idea of a mission system for transport as well. I don't remember, but is there any kind of xp reward confirmed for missions? If so, there'd definitely need to be something in place to prevent people from abusing transport missions to farm xp.