So This Is How You Treat Us SOE?

Riekopo · 2013-02-15, 12:30 AM

I've spent probably $300 on Planetside 2. I was in the beta and Alpha Squad. I've logged over 7 days of play time. I joined a Planetside 2 focused clan. I participated in the UES event. Now that my loyalty and PS2 credentials are out of the way let's discuss business ethics. Like many other players I bought a number of camouflages in the last few months. I bought the ones I did because they matched the colors of the continent I was fighting on. I have a set of armor, weapon, and vehicle camo for each continent. These cosmetic items were not cheap, but because I like PS2 so much I decided to buy them anyway.

Now here is where we have a problem with questionable business ethics. In Game Update 2 you changed how some if not all of my camouflages looked. Whether intentional or not is irrelevant. Camouflage that was natural looking and muted has become extremely saturated and vibrant. Where once I blended into the background I now stand out like a sore thumb. You changed how cosmetic items looked after I bought them. THEY ARE COSMETIC ITEMS, WE BOUGHT THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE OF HOW THEY LOOKED!. So logically I then proceeded to submit a support ticket to see if this issue could be resolved. I don't think it was unreasonable for me to request some form of refund whether in game or not of my purchases. Here is their response:

"Greetings,

Thank you for contacting PlanetSide 2 in-game support, I am Operative Chip.

Thanks for your report! We are already aware of the Sunderer horn issue and we have been able to verify it ourselves. Our Support team is currently working out a solution to this problem and a fix will be released as soon as a solution is found. In regards to your Camouflage request, we are unable to refund anything that has been changed by a recent update. If you would like to submit feedback about the game itself, you can use the /feedback command in-game or open the feedback window under the Options tab. You can also visit the forums to voice your opinion. Check out the link below.

[PS2] Forums
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php

Operative Chip
PlanetSide 2
Sony Online Entertainment"

DirtyBird · 2013-02-15, 12:55 AM

Do we have any before and after shots?

TheSaltySeagull · 2013-02-15, 03:44 AM

I haven't noticed any changes to camo but I dont really pay much attention to it. However the response you got was expected and understandable to a degree. This is an MMO and things will change. Its unrealistic to expect them to refund SC every time they alter something considering how often that occurs. Its also inline with how other companies run things with similar cash shops. In LoL you buy champions for about the same amount you buy weapons in PS2. And naturally those champions go through buff and nerf cycles. Riot does not refund your RP for champions that are changed(at least not often).

I feel for you but honestly this is how cash shops work in most games. Refunds based on items being changed are rare. At best they might offer a refund if they SIGNIFICANTLY change something to the point that it has a major game play impact. But I dont know if camo changes fit that. I am not trying to defend SOE I am just saying this is how the business is carried out and its not unique to SOE. Most online cash shops work like this. This is one of the downsides to using cash shops.

Riekopo · 2013-02-15, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by TheSaltySeagull

I haven't noticed any changes to camo but I dont really pay much attention to it. However the response you got was expected and understandable to a degree. This is an MMO and things will change. Its unrealistic to expect them to refund SC every time they alter something considering how often that occurs. Its also inline with how other companies run things with similar cash shops. In LoL you buy champions for about the same amount you buy weapons in PS2. And naturally those champions go through buff and nerf cycles. Riot does not refund your RP for champions that are changed(at least not often).

I feel for you but honestly this is how cash shops work in most games. Refunds based on items being changed are rare. At best they might offer a refund if they SIGNIFICANTLY change something to the point that it has a major game play impact. But I dont know if camo changes fit that. I am not trying to defend SOE I am just saying this is how the business is carried out and its not unique to SOE. Most online cash shops work like this. This is one of the downsides to using cash shops.

I've never seen players buy tons of cosmetic items and then have all of them altered. There is literally no reason to buy cosmetic items if they think it's ok to change how they look after everyone bought them. They ruined the existing camos and released better camos. It was completely blatant.

Figment · 2013-02-15, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Riekopo

I've never seen players buy tons of cosmetic items and then have all of them altered. There is literally no reason to buy cosmetic items if they think it's ok to change how they look after everyone bought them. They ruined the existing camos and released better camos. It was completely blatant.

My expectation of an appropriate way with updating a camo that was already in existence, would be a refund in station cash for anyone who already purchased it before. And of course communicating this has been done:

Consequence:

Client doesn't lose money to an investment they didn't want to make.
SOE doesn't lose invested money, since Station Cash is already purchased.

Koadster · 2013-02-15, 05:08 AM

Ive experienced this too.

Temperate Forest being the most annoying. It was a excellent macro pattern that blended with Indar and Amerish nicely.. Now its as fluro as Jungle forest.

I might send a support ticket about this, its like sending my dark blue car in for a service and it comes out sky blue. Maybe atleast give a trade in for the new better camos (SOEs market scheme for PS2 is clear now; Release initial content then release better stuff later, Camo being the newest kick to the guts in this regard, my 8000SC will now sit in my wallet because I know I will be buying content that will be heavily altered in the future including/particularly cosmetics!!!)

I will post pics but Auraxis is night atm, so pics wont show the complaint

Ironside · 2013-02-15, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Koadster

Ive experienced this too.

Temperate Forest being the most annoying. It was a excellent macro pattern that blended with Indar and Amerish nicely.. Now its as fluro as Jungle forest.

I might send a support ticket about this, its like sending my dark blue car in for a service and it comes out sky blue. Maybe atleast give a trade in for the new better camos (SOEs market scheme for PS2 is clear now; Release initial content then release better stuff later, Camo being the newest kick to the guts in this regard, my 8000SC will now sit in my wallet because I know I will be buying content that will be heavily altered in the future including/particularly cosmetics!!!)

I will post pics but Auraxis is night atm, so pics wont show the complaint

they could at least offer a free camo of your choice if your old camo has been drastically changed..
Post a few pics i've not noticed the changes

Elgareth · 2013-02-15, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ironside

they could at least offer a free camo of your choice if your old camo has been drastically changed..
Post a few pics i've not noticed the changes

Take the camo away, refund the SC, so people are free to buy them again if they still want them, or buy other ones.
I haven't seen old/new versions, but it sounds like the old camos were changed to being completely useless, so that would probably be fair...
Or at least refund 1/2 or 3/4 of the SC and let them keep the Camos...

psijaka · 2013-02-15, 05:43 AM

A cautionary tale this; thanks for posting. I was thinking of getting some camo; don't think that I'll bother now.

Koadster · 2013-02-15, 06:26 AM

Heres some pics, I dont have great pics of the before because well I wasnt planning on the camo being changed. Also PSU auto reshaped the pics so the camo variance cant be seen as good which sucks because after looking at the images small they dont look hugely different so ive posted direct links to larger sized one

Heres the before pic on a prowler:

LARGER SIZE PIC

Now after update:

LARGER SIZE PIC

Notice how the colours are now more vibrant, the green sticks out like a sore thumb now. The tan is as bright as the desert camo sundie in the old pic, were as the old camo was more faded tan-brown. Before the camo was slightly washed out which gave it such good blending qualities. Ive hid from many a reaver on Amerish thanks to the camo

The real kicker for me was the lighting, my fav vehicle.
Heres the before pic, if you take color samples from the background they match the camo well

LARGER SIZE PIC

Now the lighting post update.

LARGER SIZE PIC

LARGER SIZE PIC

Thank godness that the logos havent been messed with (YET)... Redheads

TLDR: I bought Temperate Forest for genuinely camoflauge ability. Its now been altered so the product I purchased is no longer functioning as intended when I bought it.

Eggy · 2013-02-15, 06:34 AM

If you look in the premium/preview section of the shop you can see why this has been done.

They are hoping to sell lots of new camos, specificaly targetted at specific conts and areas on those conts. They are not likely to sell lots of new camos if all the old ones we had were still effective.

I too had 5 cammos for my tanks that I swapped in an out of too blend in and they all got much brighter. This is especialy noticeable on stuff like the alpha squad / zebra camos.

Baneblade · 2013-02-15, 06:52 AM

I've noticed the camo changes, but haven't really seen any difference in the way the enemy reacts to me... as in they don't, until they realize I'm a tank they can't see on radar.

NewSith · 2013-02-15, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Riekopo

I've spent probably $300 on Planetside 2.

Technically, since the game is F2P and "doesn't have" any pay2win, the amount of money you have spent doesn't give you any priority over those who have not spent a cent/penny.

No offense intended, just saying. That's what their official answer will be. This can be interpreted as "we already have your 300$ and you agreed to EULA (that includes a paragraph about changes), so we don't really care"

ChipMHazard · 2013-02-15, 07:23 AM

First off: Yarr, I be liking ye Blackbeard Jolly Roger.

While I do agree that certain things are expected to be changed in an MMO, like weapon stats, I do not believe that exclusively purchasable cosmetic items should be changed unless there's a gameplay reason to do so, like say if a camo made you invisible because of a bug.
If they change, like they have done now, a piece of camo for no apparent reason then they should give out refunds, since the camo is no longer the same as when you purchased it.
Their reasoning for not doing so, while within their rights, might end up making players not purchase camos since you never know when they might change it. Of course I don't think enough people will care about it and simply continue to purchase camos, as such I doubt SOE will actually care enough to give out refunds.

By all means keep hitting up their support and the devs on twitter if you can.

Edit: Also I am not affiliated with that Chip.

Qwan · 2013-02-15, 07:50 AM

I have to agree with the Unaffiliated Chip on this one, if the cammo pattern doesnt cause a bug were you character goes invisible, then then they may be able to say no refund. I feel the same way about weapons though, If I bought a rocket launcher that could take a tank down to half damage, then they up and change it to a quarter damage, Its not the same weapon I bought in the first place. But if you read in the agrement you checked off on Im sure its in there somewere saying that they can change the stats of certain weapons, vehicles, and cammo, that have been purchased and are not liable to anyone.