Infiltrator Recon Device XP Coming Soon

[Hamma]

Not sure if anyone posted this..

[ThatGoatGuy]

About damn time.

[ChipMHazard]

Good on you, Alex

[Muldoon]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Good on you, Alex

Aww yeah. Thanks!


Btw, tons of answered questions here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/c...ltrators_will/

[WSNeo]

Will this apply to vehicles with scout radars as well? If so I'm going to be SOOOOO happy

[Helwyr]

Radar needs an epic nerf, especially Scout Radar. It doesn't need to be rewarded with xp on top of everything else.

[WSNeo]

Originally Posted by Helwyr

Radar needs an epic nerf, especially Scout Radar. It doesn't need to be rewarded with xp on top of everything else.

I'm not going to lie, you're the first person to say that radar, of all things, needs a nerf. What is wrong with radar?

Edit: Looking at your posting history it looks like you spend a lot of time as an infiltrator. So I'm guessing that may be a biased opinion.

[RSphil]

thats cool. it needs it tbh.

[camycamera]

at least makes it a bit moar useful

[RSphil]

id like to see radar jammers as an option for vehicles as well then. this would make thing interesting on the battlefield. or even mobile ones that engineers could deploy like turrets now.

[AThreatToYou]

1) Radar devalues player skill by providing a mechanical player crutch replacing the need for situational awareness and actual player observation.

It also increases the value of player strategy by giving them more choices. Incentives will just make the metagame value of XP reflect the value of the strategy better. Keep in mind that everything in this game is done by players. Someone had to bring that sensor and someone has a chance to destroy it.

Now, on it decreasing the value of situational awareness, I guess so. But the players also have to be aware of the option of taking out the radar and removing the enemy's advantage. I'll take nil on that one: no increase no decrease, just different situations.

2) Radar favors zerg play, removing many of the advantages of stealth, ambush, flanking etc that a smaller number of players might use to overcome a larger group. It devalues tactical gameplay.

I'll admit it does remove many factors of stealth and ambush, but only at so far of a range. And also, knowing where your opponent is all the time doesn't suddenly devalue tactical gameplay. It just makes the player's choices more obvious and thus gives more chances to react. In some cases, it might even promote tactical decisions because players will have more information to think about.

3) Radar largely nullifies the the core concept of the Infiltrator class, and there's no counter aside from 12 seconds of cloaking. It also impacts the Light Assault class devaluing it's ability to flank the enemy.

I think you're taking the extent too far, but it does counter infiltrators a bit. On Light Assaults, too.

I remember in beta that there was a suit modification that would allow you to never show up on the minimap unless physically spotted. We really should have that if we are going to have radar.

9) Radar makes for a dumbed down game.

It adds a complexity that can remove other complexities. Adding strategies to a game doesn't simplify it. Now, should radar-equipped units be themselves more visible on radar? Yes; we can argue over the mechanics but having a radar system in-game is good because it can add another layer of depth to the meta of attacking or defending a base. It was always a part of the set-up of defense in PS1 to place motion sensors basically everywhere you could shove them.

[Helwyr]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

It also increases the value of player strategy by giving them more choices. Incentives will just make the metagame value of XP reflect the value of the strategy better. Keep in mind that everything in this game is done by players. Someone had to bring that sensor and someone has a chance to destroy it.[...]

It adds a complexity that can remove other complexities. Adding strategies to a game doesn't simplify it.[...]

Having access to Scout Radar is trivial, it's cheap, readily available, and shared with everyone in your faction. There's no great player strategies going on here.

What does it add in terms of complexity in being able to see all your opponents on the minimap? This sort of implementation of radar mechanics is a pure reduction of player strategy choices. Seeing everyone on the mini map is the removal of player options and the impact of certain player skill on gameplay.

Radar is to a player's situational awareness, observation, and concealment/evasion skills as aimbots are to a player's twitch skills.

I'm all for Intel gathering tools so long as there's counters, but in the end it should be a player's ability and the way they utilize that ability that has the largest outcome on game play... not game mechanic crutches like radar and aimbots that do all the work for the player.

[Dodgy Commando]

Originally Posted by Helwyr

Having access to Scout Radar is trivial, it's cheap, readily available, and shared with everyone in your faction. There's no great player strategies going on here.

Its not exactly shared with everyone. It only broadcasts to allies that are within the radar's range. Getting it to a comfortable, easily-used range is not cheap certs-wise, especially on ESF's whose mobility is also a hindrance to providing effective Scout Radar coverage to allies (at lower levels of the cert). It certainly isn't all-encompassing by any means.

What does it add in terms of complexity in being able to see all your opponents on the minimap? This sort of implementation of radar mechanics is a pure reduction of player strategy choices. Seeing everyone on the mini map is the removal of player options and the impact of certain player skill on gameplay.

Radar is to a player's situational awareness, observation, and concealment/evasion skills as aimbots are to a player's twitch skills.

It clarifies a fairly chaotic and constantly changing environment, these factors effectively being amplified in a game of PS2's scope. It makes the game more accessible, accelerating certain phases compared to IRL (e.g requires less manpower, or indeed none at all, to scout enemy positions or set up dedicated overwatch during battle). Such tasks are rather thankless in a game, despite being crucial. Radar exists for gameplay reasons and fit well considering PS2's F2P nature.

You can argue it dumbs down player skill, reducing the need for situational awareness, but its a question of point of view at the end of the day. There's already a lot going on, you still need to keep an eye out for the enemy on your minimap as well as your screen. I don't think it limits tactical choices, there's lots to play around with through Radar: it doesn't detect cloaked players; infiltrators have decoy grenades (their actual utility is subject for another thread); and the enemy can seek and destroy your radar assets as well as deploy their own. Plenty of tactics going on there IMO.

Besides, PS2 is set in the future! Even today's armies strive for such an advantage; knowing is half the battle.

I disagree strongly with the aimbot comparison, but once again it boils down to opinion. I'll maintain the gameplay argument as the strongest reason for Radar's existence in PS2 and other games. It makes them generally more fun and accessible. If you want more realism (and I enjoy this type of game too, when I have the time), PS2 is not the right game. I'll agree that the absence of Radar mechanics also definitely puts forward a player's skill in terms of situational awareness and tactics, though.

I'm all for Intel gathering tools so long as there's counters, but in the end it should be a player's ability and the way they utilize that ability that has the largest outcome on game play... not game mechanic crutches like radar and aimbots that do all the work for the player.

I would welcome counter-intelligence mechanics too. Once again, I don't see it as a crutch though, rather a tool (accessible to all) which can also show your skill.

As for rewarding the use of the Sensor Dart (along with the other forms of Radar), I also welcome the change. I believe it is an underutilised piece of equipment. The change in itself will not prove unfair in terms of XP gains IMO, the rates have already increased quite a bit with several changes that have gone through.

Just my opinions of course, thanks for reading.

[AThreatToYou]

Having access to Scout Radar is trivial, it's cheap, readily available, and shared with everyone in your faction. There's no great player strategies going on here.

You're free to argue that, I'd say, but I would be asking more to improve the strategical choice of Scout Radar. Making it more rare and perhaps even restricted to squads or restricted to players only so close to the scout radar, having the scout radar active only when manning the vehicle, or things like that. Right now though I don't see very much scout radar. Adding this incentive will also let us decide whether or not its OP so we can start doing these things.

[Der Richter]

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ich kapier nix