Lasher shifting Populations?

bryan25 · 2004-02-24, 03:21 AM

With the lasher owning all people are starting to go VS or play it more often(shit i admit that i play VS alot more often just cuzz the lasher is too powerful). Lasher really needs a nerf mainly on damage or Rate of fire. I was in VR and i just spammed evry guy i could find and got tons of VR kills and in real combet i find myself killing tons of really good players that would own me if i had any others weapon. I am tellin you it needs a nerf its way too powerful and now its shifting the populations. For the 1st time ever the VS are outnumbering NC and TR on almost every server. Something must be done!

BadAsh · 2004-02-24, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by bryan25

With the lasher owning all people are starting to go VS or play it more often(shit i admit that i play VS alot more often just cuzz the lasher is too powerful). Lasher really needs a nerf mainly on damage or Rate of fire. I was in VR and i just spammed evry guy i could find and got tons of VR kills and in real combet i find myself killing tons of really good players that would own me if i had any others weapon. I am tellin you it needs a nerf its way too powerful and now its shifting the populations. For the 1st time ever the VS are outnumbering NC and TR on almost every server. Something must be done!

Know what kills a Lasher? A Jackhammer. If you don't like HA use the Gauss and if you get close and can aim your TTK is faster than the Lasher. Don't like MA? Use SA then as the Thumper and Rocket Rifle both work wonders against Lasher users.

Today I watched a good Gauss user in Rexo kill 3 Agile Lashers in a hallway... and I saw a Jackhammer in a Rexo pounce on 4 Lasher users and kill them all... one had a backpack so these were not noob Lasher users.

Part of the problem with the Lasher is it might be bugged to do a minor amount of extra damage... The main problem is that with the larger clip size, lashing within 5m, and slightly faster reload time many more people are trying it out... and the NC are just not used to opponents that can fight back so well. The lasher has always been an excellent weapon... but is no real match for the Jack... However, in numbers like what you have now...

With the increase of purple zergs comes the increase of purple steamroller wins... kind of like what the NC have been doing for the last few months... so forgive my apathy towards your new found "pain"... My TR character bids you welcome to the world of pain... Time to tuff it up and actually learn to fight...

GreyFox · 2004-02-24, 05:02 AM

Everything the lasher needs is a bug fix.

WritheNC · 2004-02-24, 05:07 AM

You have the following "*best of" weapons:

The Best Pistol

No. AMP has the fastest TTK. Repeater for staying out of DL range.

The Best MA

Yes. Gauss owns.

The Best AV

Yes. Phoenix owns too. Unless you're aircraft, then striker owns you, even if half the users can't get it to lock onto you. If it doesn't own you, its because you're a half decent pilot who flies away, which means it disrupts you and vicariously does a decent job.

The Best Tank

No. Magrider is just as good. It gives up more armor for increased range and a substantially greater effectiveness against aircraft.

The Best HA

Erm...ahh...its good, but too specialized. Outside you at least have a *chance* with other HA weapons. And the JH kills new rexo in 4-5 hits, and the lasher kills in 5-7 hits, which is almost exactly the same ttk since the lasher fires 4 rounds/sec. as opposed to the JH's 3 rounds/sec. Indoors there isn't much room to dodge, so if you're a JH user trying to get close to do damage, you're already half dead, and at point blank the Lasher does almost as much damage as the JH does.

It doesn't matter. They aren't gonna throw out HA, so Lasher is gonna get a nerf, then another nerf and then a "bug fix" after 2 more months of constant OF bitching.

Black · 2004-02-24, 09:04 AM

i have a solution that will end all problems ..................get rid of HA

Krinsath · 2004-02-24, 09:15 AM

The NC had their moment in the sun, now it's the VS.

The Lasher is not this insanely powerful ueber killing machine...just like the JH is not this insanely powerful ueber killing machine.

If there are bugs associated with it (lashing through walls, lashing behind the gun, etc.) then yes...fix them.

As it stands, the reason the Lasher is so prevelant is not so much because it is insanely powerful...it's the sorry state of the Pulsar and Beamer. The bandwagoners that went over are idiots anyway, looking for a perceived advantage. The veteran VS who are using the Lasher are doing so because the Pulsar is useless at long range, and the Beamer is just flat out useless unless you have some paper you don't want blown off your desk.

All the common pool AI weapons are kind of iffy, so that leaves us with the Sweeper and the Lasher as viable weapons. Hmmmm....I wonder what 99% of people would pick. Buff the Pulsar a bit (at least at long range) and give the VS soldiers a viable alternative.

Not every NC is a Jackwhore, why? Because the Gauss is a great weapon. Not every TR totes around a MCG, why? Because the Cycler is a great weapon.

Pulsar is only good at medium to short range...where the Lasher is better. See the problem here?

And be happy when you see a Lasher user. From the VS battles I've been involved with, their MAXes are still more deadly. The Quasar in particular beats the Lasher in every single category except area of effect. Higher RoF, higher clip, higher ammo capacity, faster TTK, better range. In the time it took for the guy on the range with a lasher to take out four people, the Quasar had taken out nine. Be glad the VS have moved away from being the MAX empire to this assumed advantage. Uni-MAX is cheaper then HA, don't forget.

Madcow · 2004-02-24, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Krinsath

and the Beamer is just flat out useless unless you have some paper you don't want blown off your desk.

Not to sidetrack this too much, but I've personally changed my opinion on this. Using a looted Beamer as an infil against the VS is extremely gratifying, and it's a far better weapon than I had given it credit for. I wouldn't want to use it as a VS, or against the TR who would quickly track the sound down, but using it against the VS is as easy as it gets. Grab Enhanced Targetting, stay a bit away from a person/group, wait for them to get below half health and lay into them from well beyond DL range. It's absurd how accurate that thing is from long distances. The damage blows and it's slow firing, so you have to prey on the wounded but you get the added bonus of their humiliation from dying at the hands of that pistol.

Krinsath · 2004-02-24, 09:28 AM

Only works against the VS b/c it's a VS weapon.

I cleared off a tower top of about 8 or 9 NC once because I had the prescence of mind to grab a Gauss before heading up...funny how people don't figure it out and pay attention to that kill box and go "hey...there's a red gauss...."

Against anyone else, that weapon is a deathtrap. AMP beats it hands down. It *IS* useful for clearing mines though...but so are jammer grenades and those take up much less space.

Madcow · 2004-02-24, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Krinsath

Only works against the VS b/c it's a VS weapon.

I cleared off a tower top of about 8 or 9 NC once because I had the prescence of mind to grab a Gauss before heading up...funny how people don't figure it out and pay attention to that kill box and go "hey...there's a red gauss...."

Against anyone else, that weapon is a deathtrap. AMP beats it hands down. It *IS* useful for clearing mines though...but so are jammer grenades and those take up much less space.

Oh, I agree. That distinct sound is suicide unless you're firing it against the VS. And like I said, you can really only take on the people who are limping along anyhow. That's completely forgotten when you experience the joy of killing multiple people with the flashlight, though. At this point if I'm fighting the VS I go out of my way to loot them to use against them.

Veteran · 2004-02-24, 09:10 AM

Four credits for a bigger gun and a boatload of troubles. Not a deal for a game that ultimately forces close-quarters combat for any real conquest.

Surge needs to be balanced, then HA won't be as bad.

Veteran · 2004-02-24, 09:17 AM

Pulsar has a 40 shot clip and an AP firing mode. I just don't get what sucks about it.

Krinsath · 2004-02-24, 09:23 AM

The damage degradation at long range.

Sorry to yoink this Grey, but it illustrates the point nicely:

http://www.greyfalcon.net/pulsardeg.gif

At long range, it does less damage per hit than the Cycler, which already does a slight amount at long range. Right about the time you start to see it get back up into the middle is where the Lasher's range begins. That's why it sucks, about the time it becomes an advantage over other empire's weapons, one of it's counterparts becomes more useful than it. Make it roughly equal at long range to the Cycler (Cycler still has higher RoF) and you'd probably see more use out of it. As it stands, why go for a marginal advantage with the Pulsar when you can get a big advantage with the Lasher and just staying out of sight until you're in range?

ZeroShadow · 2004-02-24, 09:32 AM

Everyone says the lasher is to overpowered but its not its balanced. And it only got 5 extra shots per clip. And lashes a bit fast. WOW that makes it alot more powerful dosent it.

Krinsath · 2004-02-24, 09:37 AM

In all fairness, there's a handful of legitimate complaints amongst the whining. There is at least one bug associated with it (the fact that someone standing behind the Lasher still gets hit...which isn't fair or sensical as it means Lasher users have a 5m "can't touch me" zone which wasn't the designed purpose...much like the quad shot was not) and maybe more, but outside of bugs like that...the cries that the Lasher is ruining the game is a bit overboard, IMO.

Majik · 2004-02-24, 12:37 PM

AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Ok I have the solution to all the lasher/jackhammer and Surge problems. Just remove Heavy Assault from the game completely. No one will complain anymore about anyone elses HA being more powerfull then theirs. No on will complain about surgiles. AND everyone with HA gets to use the 4 cert points to spend on something more usefull to their empire on the whole then their own kill count.