Should the Enforcer and Sauron be better at AA, or is the Vulcan too good at AA?

phungus · 2013-07-04, 12:15 AM

What are your opinions on this people? It doesn't seem too bad, really, just the only problem is only TR can gib ESFs and libs as easily with MBTs and Harrassers.

One thing is for sure though, as a fourth factioner the TR's striker and Vulcan make the air game easier, and different. It doesn't seem right to me. The stiker is getting changed in the ESF update (or we can assume so based on the notes from the devs). So in my opinion the striker isn't worth discussing, until we see the ESF update. We know it's broken, but the devs do to and are presumably fixing it (actually have the standard G2A be fire and forget while the striker needs to hold the lock would be a perfect way to balance things). The Vulcan though, it's good at killing ESFs, straight up - it's no Skyguard, but it is superior to an AA MAX at close AA support. Where the vulcan really shines is shattering libs and gals though.

I think it seems fine where the Vulcan is in terms of AA. The Vulcan is an interesing trade off with the Walker; I think it's just superior though overall. The Walker is better at range whereas the vulcan vaporizes ESFs in CQC (from an air perspective, wish I could put a vulcan on my mossy), but against heavy aircraft I think the Vulcan is just superior in every way to the walker - against ESFs it's totally situational.

It's an interesting balance thing, and on the main forums everyone focuses on needing to nerf the Vulcan. But I don't really buy that. If the Sauron and Enforcer were brought up to the Vulcan's level in terms of AA duty, it could be really interesting.

DarkBalths · 2013-07-04, 12:49 AM

Vulcan is OP against air,
Enforcer is way OP against armour,
Saron is (not so much since the nerf) OP against infantry.

bpostal · 2013-07-04, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by DarkBalths

Vulcan is OP against air,
Enforcer is way OP against armour,
Saron is (not so much since the nerf) OP against infantry.

I was going to type something up this morning when I saw this thread. I couldn't think of what to type.
This, up there ^^^ That's what I wanted to say.

Everything's OP, it just depends on what it's OP against.

maradine · 2013-07-04, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by DarkBalths

Vulcan is OP against air,
Enforcer is way OP against armour,
Saron is (not so much since the nerf) OP against infantry.

It's almost like . . . the factions have different strengths. Fascinating!

phungus · 2013-07-04, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

It's almost like . . . the factions have different strengths. Fascinating!

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air. Mostly because of the Strikers (which are getting fixed it seems), but also the Vulcan makes things different. If I roll my standard rotary + A2Am (I love abusing OP weapons, see the Battlefield friends episode on USGS Frag Rounds to know I how feel running A2Am) I can kill lone NC and VS Harrassers, and also harrass armor - I cannot do this against TR because they have the vulcan and that's noteworthy.

I'm fine with the concept of a close range AV and AA killer (but again, the Vulcan is just OP against heavy aircraft, there is no way it should shoot down libs and gals like it does at the ranges it does), but NC and VS need something equally powerful against the air (perhaps the Enforcer shotgun could be made to 2 shot ESFs within 150m, perhaps the Saron could get buffed against aircraft, there are many practical things to implement to make this work). Right now TR is just too advantaged in the air game compared to VS and NC and the Vulcan is a major part of that.

Phreec · 2013-07-05, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by phungus

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air. Mostly because of the Strikers (which are getting fixed it seems), but also the Vulcan makes things different. If I roll my standard rotary + A2Am (I love abusing OP weapons, see the Battlefield friends episode on USGS Frag Rounds to know I how feel running A2Am) I can kill lone NC and VS Harrassers, and also harrass armor - I cannot do this against TR because they have the vulcan and that's noteworthy.

I'm fine with the concept of a close range AV and AA killer (but again, the Vulcan is just OP against heavy aircraft, there is no way it should shoot down libs and gals like it does at the ranges it does), but NC and VS need something equally powerful against the air (perhaps the Enforcer shotgun could be made to 2 shot ESFs within 150m, perhaps the Saron could get buffed against aircraft, there are many practical things to implement to make this work). Right now TR is just too advantaged in the air game compared to VS and NC and the Vulcan is a major part of that.

You forgot about MAX's. Both VS and TR abilities buff the effectiveness of AA, which shouldn't happen. Currently TR has way too much AA oriented that's vastly superior and they should start with tweaking the Vulcan.

maradine · 2013-07-05, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by phungus

As a fourth factioning ESF pilot I can assure the factions are not ballanced and different - TR is simply better at AA and much harder to play against in the air.

Precisely. In the one aspect of the game you choose to sample, the factions are not balanced. That's my point. Different factions do different things better.

Is this by design? Bad planning? Who knows.

Rumblepit · 2013-07-04, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

It's almost like . . . the factions have different strengths. Fascinating!

stfu man, your starting to make since and shet... wft are you thinking???

WSNeo · 2013-07-04, 11:19 PM

The weapons are fine. Leave them as they are.

Stop suggesting that all three empires be balanced asymmetrically.

Selerox · 2013-07-04, 02:31 AM

I saw a trio of Prowlers acting as an AA battery yesterday. So yeah, it's OP.

Falcon_br · 2013-07-04, 03:02 AM

Everything is op in this game.
I am using the vulcan for since day one and didn´t show any air unit with it yet, maybe one or two, but not as many as people claim here.

KesTro · 2013-07-04, 03:29 AM

I do think the Vulcan is easily the strongest of the three but the Dev's already said that every faction will have a weapon with similar functionality to the vulcan at some point. So good news, you can kill the TR with their own niche.

phungus · 2013-07-04, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by KesTro

I do think the Vulcan is easily the strongest of the three but the Dev's already said that every faction will have a weapon with similar functionality to the vulcan at some point. So good news, you can kill the TR with their own niche.

Cool. I don't really have a problem with the vulcan for AA against ESFs, I do think it's OP against gals and libs straight up though. If all other factions get something similar - short ranged monster that shreds anything at close range, then that would be cool. I just don't like how TR has an advantage protecting their armor since ESFs have to stay about twice the distance from Prowler's and TR Harrassers then mossys have to stay from the NC and VS equivalents.

Vulcan is cool though, it really doesn't feel broken to me - just wholly unfair that only TR get it.

Rolfski · 2013-07-04, 05:13 AM

Vulcan still sucks against infantry which is the big trade-off here.

KesTro · 2013-07-08, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Vulcan still sucks against infantry which is the big trade-off here.

So does the enforcer, can't speak about the saron as I haven't played VS in awhile. But Enforcer needs 2 direct hits to kill someone. So it's doable, just not likely.