Raw Weapon Data via Higby

[Hamma]

I know this is probably posted somewhere and most have probably already seen it (I blame my new job) but if not Higby posted a bunch of pretty cool data screenshots yesterday.

[ChipMHazard]

I'm mostly surprised at Higby's statement of surprise, unless I'm mistaken as to the reason why he was surprised.

(I know the following only applies to BR100s)
The data for the most part fits my own thoughts and experience with the game, although there are a few things I was suprised to see.

• I would have thought that SMGs were more popular across all classes than they are, obviously the people using them are very proficiency with them. I wasn't surprised to see that the infils are the main users, only real competitive choice if you want full auto capabilities.
• I know the NC are mostly about shotguns, but I didn't think that the Jackhammer was so popular
• I would have thought that more people used shotguns, but then again this simply shows how often a weapon is used and shotguns are situational weapons. Effective when actually used.

Most BR100 players will opt for the best close-medium range option they can find. Versatility is the name of the game. The GR-22 is a good example of this. Great up close, but not as versatile as the Carnage.

I wonder why they showed us the BR100s' weapon trends and not the whole playerbases.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

I wonder why they showed us the BR100s' weapon trends and not the whole playerbases.

Well besides the advantages of removing noobs and clueless people from the data base.
BR 100s are much likely than other players to have access to a wide variety of weapons so you are more likely to be seeing what people choose when all options are open to them.


EDIT: I forgot to mention the obvious reason.

The average kill xp rates with NC weapons are probably much worse than Vanu and TR so they show the top end where skill and experience hide the differences.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Well besides the advantages of removing noobs and clueless people from the data base.
BR 100s are much likely than other players to have access to a wide variety of weapons so you are more likely to be seeing what people choose when all options are open to them.

Good point.

[Snoopy]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

The average kill xp rates with NC weapons are probably much worse than Vanu and TR so they show the top end where skill and experience hide the differences.

NC so hard done by

[DirtyBird]

No Engineer data Higby?

With the access to more weapons at BR100 its also a good time to get a few extra auraxium medals.

[Falcon_br]

Looks like we need to nerf the jackhammer, or make the mcg good again.
Also, the people use the lasher more then I thought and get an horrible spm with it.
Also, looks like I was right when I told VS heavy weapons are the best heavy weapons on the game.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Looks like we need to nerf the jackhammer, or make the mcg good again.

Popularity =/= Quality. I don't see how this data shows that the Jackhammer is too good and the MCG isn't good enough.

From what I can see the VS LMGs are the most effective in the hands of BR100s.

[Falcon_br]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Popularity =/= Quality. I don't see how this data shows that the Jackhammer is too good and the MCG isn't good enough.

From what I can see the VS LMGs are the most effective in the hands of BR100s.

I am talking about SPM of those weapon on BR 100 players.
The MCG got a spm lower them almost all VS HMG!
Not even BR 100 players can make it effective!
That is not a problem to the jackhammer.
VS HMG need to be nerfed badly, I always said that.
I also always said the T9 carv was the only viable choice for a TR HA, the msw-r close to second, I was perfectly right.
While we only have two viable weapons to the TR HA, the VS got 4, the NC got 3 and the best close range weapon of the game, the jackhammer. No BR 100 is a match in close range to a NC with a jackhammer. (Use stun grenade).
Two weapon for the TR HA while the other two have 4 is bullshit.
Increasing reload time to nerf the two .75 move ads overpowered VS HMG is not the solution we need right now.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

• I am talking about SPM of those weapon on BR 100 players.
• The MCG got a spm lower them almost all VS HMG!
• Not even BR 100 players can make it effective!
• That is not a problem to the jackhammer.
• VS HMG need to be nerfed badly, I always said that.
• I also always said the T9 carv was the only viable choice for a TR HA, the msw-r close to second, I was perfectly right.
• While we only have two viable weapons to the TR HA, the VS got 4, the NC got 3 and the best close range weapon of the game, the jackhammer. No BR 100 is a match in close range to a NC with a jackhammer. (Use stun grenade).
• Increasing reload time to nerf the two .75 move ads overpowered VS HMG is not the solution we need right now.

• SPM alone doesn't mean much.
• So? Could simply be because not that many skilled BR100 like to use the MCG. I don't personally like the MCG myself since it doesn't really have a role besides just being an alternative to LMGs.
• It's still effective. The data doesn't suggest it being ineffective in any shape or form. Because something might be less effective than other options doesn't mean that it's ineffective.
• The Jackhammer has the benefit of being one of the best, if not the best, shotgun which makes it highly effective under the right circumstances. We all know how NC love their shotguns in bases that favor CQC. So in that sense yes, the Jackhammer is better than the MCG since that is in no way near the top of it's class. If you want to argue that heavy weapons should be the top of their class then I could get behind that, sure.
• They and all other .075 weapons are going to get nerfed and along with the general LMG nerf it might be enough to bring them in line with other LMG. I do agree that the VS have the best LMGs, but I don't agree that they need to be nerfed hard.
• Most certainly not the only viable choice, every single LMG is viable. Some are just more versatile/effective than others. I think you might be confusing viable with competitive. At which point I would be more inclined to agree with you.
• Again we have plenty of viable choices, the VS just have 2 better choices than either TR/NC. Then again TR have the TAR and TRV. Each faction have their own 0.75 weapons. The Jackhammer is the most versatile shotgun. The base design in many places just plain favors shotguns, not to mention the TTK.
• Maybe not, we'll see. Personally I would rather see each faction having the same 0.75 weapon options. Giving each faction it's own category of 0.75 weapons just seems rather arbitrary. I don't really see it as being a good way to make the factions more distinct from each other.

[Falcon_br]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

• SPM alone doesn't mean much.
• So? Could simply be because not that many skilled BR100 like to use the MCG. I don't personally like the MCG myself since it doesn't really have a role besides just being an alternative to LMGs.
• It's still effective. The data doesn't suggest it being ineffective in any shape or form. Because something might be less effective than other options doesn't mean that it's ineffective.
• The Jackhammer has the benefit of being one of the best, if not the best, shotgun which makes it highly effective under the right circumstances. We all know how NC love their shotguns in bases that favor CQC. So in that sense yes, the Jackhammer is better than the MCG since that is in no way near the top of it's class. If you want to argue that heavy weapons should be the top of their class then I could get behind that, sure.
• They and all other .075 weapons are going to get nerfed and along with the general LMG nerf it might be enough to bring them in line with other LMG. I do agree that the VS have the best LMGs, but I don't agree that they need to be nerfed hard.
• Most certainly not the only viable choice, every single LMG is viable. Some are just more versatile/effective than others. I think you might be confusing viable with competitive. At which point I would be more inclined to agree with you.
• Again we have plenty of viable choices, the VS just have 2 better choices than either TR/NC. Then again TR have the TAR and TRV. Each faction have their own 0.75 weapons. The Jackhammer is the most versatile shotgun. The base design in many places just plain favors shotguns, not to mention the TTK.
• Maybe not, we'll see. Personally I would rather see each faction having the same 0.75 weapon options. Giving each faction it's own category of 0.75 weapons just seems rather arbitrary. I don't really see it as being a good way to make the factions more distinct from each other.

If you don't think spm alone is enough, I have already made direct weapon stats comparative and the weapons with better stats are clear with better spm.
That's why I don't see future on MLG unless they all use NS weapons. It is clear that the TR is on disadvantage on all HA weapons.
While we must use the t9 carv on all situations, the NC and the VS have better options for close and long range, even to all purpose!
You can't be a competitive HA TR player and use something else then the t9 carv, unless you want a negative K/D.
I never saw a competitive streamer TR player that plays with HA, they all play with Mosquitos, or medics.
I don't get what you are talking about the TAR, the data is clear when the carnage BR is more used with better spm.

[BeyondNinja]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

• Maybe not, we'll see. Personally I would rather see each faction having the same 0.75 weapon options. Giving each faction it's own category of 0.75 weapons just seems rather arbitrary. I don't really see it as being a good way to make the factions more distinct from each other.

THIS ^

Ignoring SMGs and Shotguns cos they're common, the 0.75x ADS weapons are the most popular in every category, for all factions.

I agree that SPM doesn't really show much, because the difference between say, the Jackhammer and MCG is less than the difference between the TR and NC battlerifles...


It is however evident from the data that CQC-focused automatic weapons are the most popular for each category but what I think the data shows best is that for certain categories a faction feels 'pigeonholed' into choosing a single weapon. Best examples are the GD-7F for NC carbines, and the H-V45 for the VS medic, and to a lesser extent the Jaguar carbine and TAR AR for the TR.

From this I would postulate that the first 2 weapons need viable alternatives for CQC (other than shotguns and SMGs) and the TAR and Jaguar may need to have their alternatives (the TRV and Lynx) adjusted as evidently their pros aren't widely seen to overcome their cons compared to the TAR and Jaguar.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Increasing reload time to nerf the two .75 move ads overpowered VS HMG is not the solution we need right now.

Frankly this is the only part that I can agree with or support.

Having MOAR weapons that apparently function at a high level? Just pick the good one or the one you like?

There is so much detail missing from these graphs. They are interesting, but at the same time there is more they DON"T say than they do.

As far as balancing the .75 move ADS? I don't recall, I think it was igladyoumad that made a post about it many months ago and I think it got glossed over because, well he complains about a lot. Simply put though HA with an HMG should just not have that kind of movement and increasing reload time to attempt at balance is a laughable excuse.

[maradine]

[Badjuju]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Popularity =/= Quality. I don't see how this data shows that the Jackhammer is too good and the MCG isn't good enough.

From what I can see the VS LMGs are the most effective in the hands of BR100s.

Yea, surprisingly allot of players wielding VS LMGs, or any .75 weapons for that matter, do not take full advantage of the strafing speed. Higher BRs seem to understand the capabilities those weapons and strafe like mad men. What i was surprised to see was how the vs LMGs overall did very well, not just their prized ones. Med guns for VS fell short to NC and TR though, but we knew that already (Carnage will be a beast with nano changes btw).

It would be nice to see this data for a wider range of character ranks. Say 50-100. The point that higher level characters are more likely to have unlocked more weapons is well made, however a player not unlocking a weapon does not skew the data for that weapon.

My concern is how accurate some of the data is with what may be a relatively small sample size, particularly on the less popular weapons where a few outliers can really skew the data if the sample size for that weapon is small. The larger the sample size the better the data will be every time.

Not only that, but higher BRs tend to be verry efficient with whatever they use and generally are better players (opinion based off personal experience) I'm not sure if they represent the general player base who may be struggling with specific weapons Comparatively. If that was the case, I'm not sure what is better. Do you look at data from better players that show the full potential of weapons, or do you look at the data that represents what the average player is capable of doing with that weapon? Again this is under the assumption that higher BRs were often better players who leveled up quicker because of it.

Overall though the data is great to see and seems to fit how I feel about the weapons which are more popular. The one thing we need to be careful of is comparing score per hour between weapons of different niches. For example the jackhammer has a high score per hour because it is a close combat weapon used in fast paced environments with lots of targets (You see this with allot of weapons in that niche). It looks to out perform many LMGs from every faction, however I'd consider it a less effective weapon overall. You just don't tend to rack in kills as fast in longer engagements. Two different groups of weapons with two different niches.

Wow what was ment to be a quick comment turned into a wall of text, ill stop rambling .