Post BR20 Abilities - Flame Free Version

[Krinsath]

I was thinking about making this thread, and was going to tack it onto the one already going but then noticed it had degenerated into a flame war, so I'm going to start fresh and hope for the best.

First off, I want to make it absolutely clear that I do *not* like the things that I have heard from the Devs regarding post-BR20 abilities. What I've heard about what they are proposing (via Ask the Devs recordings) are fundamental changes to the classes, for example countermeasures and a true flight model for pilots as well as a second holster for BR20 infiltrators. I feel that is a poor idea, and that the post-BR20 abilities should be access to minor tweaks that give you an edge, but nothing overpowering on their own.

That being said, my ideas for post-BR20 abilities (and I'm not promising that any of these are winners...some I look at and go..."meh"):

Please bear in mind that I'm thinking of this as a "you can get ONE ability every time you get XP equivalent to the XP from BR19-20 modified on a similar scale"...some of these abilities may be combined into a single one if they're not that great on their own.

Infantry:

-Option for larger capacity ammo boxes (lighter materials, more powerful charges), somewhere between 150%-200% of current sizes (so a BR20 MCGer could carry 1 reload per box, or at least 3 reloads in 2).

-Boost armor absorbtion by 1 per hit (stronger components).

-Slight CoF reduction on weapons

-Increase in MAX turning radius (also entails a slight inventory cut as the lighter suit is what moves faster, but most MAXes carry plenty of ammo anyway since there's no need for anything else)

Infiltrators:

-As a general change, all (even the BR1) infiltrators get 2 holsters. However, if you are below BR20, that 2nd holster is a REK, ALL the time. After BR20, you can get the ability to make that 2nd holster whatever you want it to be (Pistol, ACE, etc).

-The ability to throw the pistols at the enemy so that Beamer can actually inflict damage (that's a joke for those who haven't had their coffee yet)

-Implant feedback pistol. New weapon that reacts to the activation of an implant by inflicting 2 damage when activated and 2 damage per second used afterwards, except darklight which is doubled (electrical feedback, darklight being severe as the nerves in the eyes go directly to the brain, resulting in greater damage). Effects last for 30 seconds. If no implants are active, no damage is done. Hitting someone who already has the feedback effect has no effect.

Vehicles (Ground):

-Boost vehicle top speed by 10kph

-Improved resistance to mines (mines would do about 75% of the damage they currently do)

-Ejection mechanism that launches you from a badly damaged vehicle (must have 33% or less of armor remaining to use), even if in motion. Throws you clear of a blast (assuming a clear path ahead), but not high enough to clear a base wall.

-Gunners get a directional indicator of where enemy vehicles are (I'm thinking of brackets and arrows on the side of the screen) within LOS. Always bugged me that vehicles had no targeting computers on them, but an elite BR20 tank driver would have an upgraded vehicle.

Pilots:

(General Changes for all pilots would be Countermeasures, true flight model option)

-Reaver missiles will lock on to ground targets.

-Mosquitos equipped with air-to-air lock on missiles (not overpowering as *all* pilot have countermeasures).

-The infamous, counter-countermeasures

-Special bomb for Liberators, was thinking along the lines of scatterable mines or something.

Engineers:

-Faster repair rate

-Deployables more immune to EMP strikes and Jammers (are unaffected 25% of the time)

-Interference distance on deployables reduced.

Medics:

-Revive takes 15 instead of 25 med units. EDITED (Thanks to SilverLord's accurate numbers)

-Faster Revive rate

For BR20s with Eng AND Medic:

-Combo-tool. Has 4 Fire modes similar to an ACE, combines the BANK and the Medical Applicatior into a pistol sized unit. Still needs nano-juice and med-juice separately for reloads (dual ammo like the Punisher). Advanced, high tech stuff issued only to proven soldiers.

I think that provides enough options to keep people happy. If you feel I've neglicted your group, please let me know.

[SilverLord]

Originally Posted by Krinsath

Medics:

-Revive takes 5 instead of 10 med units.

-Faster Revive rate

Currently it takes 25 units to revive a friendly Krin.

This should be reduced to about 15 or so if this would go in.

I also would like to see some other use for Adv. Med come in because nobody has this cert and if you do, like me, you just don't get the use out of that I would like.

[Krinsath]

Ah, I dropped advanced medic long ago because it wasn't worthwhile (it is my next cert to pick up again though). So yes, your corrected numbers would be much better.

I too would like to see some expansion on the medic role, but other than heals and revives, what can they do?

[SilverLord]

There could always be stim packs for stamina.

There could always be a deployable you can put up that allows a friendly to heal in the field.

Thats all I have thought up as of now though.

[Krinsath]

I like the deployable idea...but that might be a bit much. Stimpacks would be of minor value.

There are just some fundamental fixes that need to go in for the medic, not post-BR20.

Things like XP rewards for high-risk revives on the battlefield. And players not turning into backpacks until they've actually respawned.

How about an ability that instead of healing 1 person, the med app heals everyone in 2m (the drain on med units would remain the same...same restrictions on not moving)? Not quite a deployable, but the same idea.

[SilverLord]

What if the corpse of a dead infantrymen just stays on the battlefield until the guy pops up into a respawn tube allowing him to click out and just wait for him to be revived. Allowing a medic to revive him even though he still is repawning.

Of course with this change, revive times must be cut.

[Happy lil Elf]

I think it'd be nice to allow high level advanced medics to carry a small item that acts like the revives in RtCW in that it's nearly instantaneous. Perhaps 1 square wide 2 high obviously equippable in pistol slot. Possibly allow advanced medics with engineering to revive infantry at 50% armor and MAXs at significantly less, maybe 1/8 or something.

[Krinsath]

That revive with a little armor is also a good idea HLE.

Don't know about the insta-revive, as that could lead to some problems, but as an ability for those who bothered to devote at least 8 certs to support, I think the combo revive is quite good.

[SilverLord]

Insta-revives would be bad for gameplay and balance issues. I like the armor thing too but...you shouldn't have to have both certs..

[Krinsath]

Originally Posted by SilverLord

Insta-revives would be bad for gameplay and balance issues. I like the armor thing too but...you shouldn't have to have both certs..

Only problem with being able to do it as adv. medic only is you end up with the RtCW situation.

Let's say you see a guy with no armor and a bit of health...you're only an Advanced Medic so you can't repair his armor, but if you revive the guy you get some of his armor back, so you kill him and then revive him (happens constantly in RtCW because revives are faster than dishing out health packs). That'd throw off gameplay too.

[SilverLord]

Originally Posted by Krinsath

Only problem with being able to do it as adv. medic only is you end up with the RtCW situation.

Are we talkin Return of Castle Wolfenstein here or what?

[EarlyDawn]

Elite abilities should be just that, enhancements to their certs that are like accompanying abilities, like guided missles for the Mosquito. I'm totally against anything that changes CoF, RoF, or ammo box size.

[Dharkbayne]

[Queensidecastle]

I rather like the Devs ideas for post BR 20 skills. I think they will infuse a lot of life into the game. As far as Adv Medics not being a strong support role because of backpacks, was an idea that came out fairly soon after release. I believe at that time the Devs said they liked that idea but there was a technical limitation to them being able to implement it. Perhaps that is something they will be able to change when they iplement the BR 20+ changes this summer

[Krinsath]

Originally Posted by EarlyDawn

Elite abilities should be just that, enhancements to their certs that are like accompanying abilities, like guided missles for the Mosquito. I'm totally against anything that changes CoF, RoF, or ammo box size.

Arguably, it is a simple enhancement for Medium Assault, Heavy Assault, and other Infantry certs. Why should vehicle drivers and support personell be the only ones to benefit from elite abilities when it's just as viable to be a hard-core infantry grunt and get to BR20? I'd want elite abilities that help me with my chosen specialty.

Thinking on it further though, I'd rather split that into 5 separate abilties. One to increase the size of the 9mm and energy boxes to 75, one to up the shotguns to 24, one to up the sniper rounds to 15, one for the rocklet/grenades to go up to 18, and one to up the AV ammo to 150% of standard. If a player racks up the experience to get 5 elite abilities, he must be doing something right. Also, a mechanism would need to be put in that made it so that the ammo boxes were unusable by those who lacked the appropriate ability (so the BR20 doesn't become an ammo depot for his buddies). The RoF of the weapon remains the same, so all it does is allow them to carry more support gear or remain in the field longer, not an overpowering change as they can still be killed as easy as the next guy.

Originally Posted by Queensidecastle

I rather like the Devs ideas for post BR 20 skills. I think they will infuse a lot of life into the game. As far as Adv Medics not being a strong support role because of backpacks, was an idea that came out fairly soon after release. I believe at that time the Devs said they liked that idea but there was a technical limitation to them being able to implement it. Perhaps that is something they will be able to change when they iplement the BR 20+ changes this summer

I like the IDEAS the Devs are presenting, I just disagree with the idea that they should be BR20 only. The flight model, for instance, would be basically ensuring that only BR20s would ever be pilots (a pilot who can do loops and rolls and real flight manuevers will wipe the floor with a guy who can only do what the current flight model allows). Adding a second holster to only a BR20 infiltrator would make being less than a BR20 infiltrator a frustration. Sure, they're great things to work for, but they upset the balance too much. That's why they need to be, as EarlyDawn said, minor enhancements and tweaks.