ANTs and NTU Silos

[afex]

short version:

what the fuck? this is gay.

1. nobody will want to do it
2. bases will always fall to neutral
3. attackers win (by either force, or by defenders giving up b/c of "wtf, this team sucks" mentality).
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long version:

ok, i have some not-so-good feelings about this. the devs have made change after change to speed up the game and now they've gone and done something which i feel not only slows down the game but will affect the fun-factor.

the logic is simple. the average joe gamer doesn't want to be the guy stuck with the bitch job. and he doesn't have to be. nothing stops him from fighting, so he will fight in leu of doing the boring things. and here is the boring thing in question. lugging a not-so-fast, not-so-armored buggy thing to a warpgate and back to fill up the bases energy.

this in and of itself is not the problem. the problem is that this is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to holding any base. you will lose if you don't do it. you'd think that that fact would be enough to make someone do it all the time. but in my experience with online games, i highly doubt it will happen. nobody wants to do the menial tasks, they want the action.

i expect all bases to fall to neutral every time there is a fight. and that just isn't fun. the control of a base should be determined about how well the defenders are fighting, not how effectively the ANT escort is (if there even is any, see boring tasks above). when the bases will fall to neutral, you will get bickering and arguing on the defense. "go fill up the silo!", "no, you do it", "no you do it" ad nausium. if the attackers already haven't invaded and captured the base, i expect alot of defenders to simply give up and leave(kill themselves, whatever) to go fight somewhere "where their team doesn't suck."

and after the attackers clean up the last of the defense, their silo will still be empty, and still nobody will want to be the one to go fill it up. so the attackers will most likely leave the base to fight elsewhere (even tho the other bases will be facing the same issues)

if you need a full silo to run a base, then what the fuck is the generator for? this just really doesn't make sense to me. what was wrong with the old way?

menial, boring tasks should not be necessary to controlling a base. they say they want this game to be a fast-paced FPS, but this is more reminiscent of an RTS.

would you want to be the grunt hording gold in warcraft? didn't think so.

[Mazelmavin]

I agree, people want action and the ANT job is boring.

But boring only in of itself.

The job will get done, because poeple like teamwork. Even if your job is the boring one, it feels exciting in a team.

One guy is not going to go get an ANT and bring it back. No, this will be a job for a whole squad. The ANT will need a guard to make it back. Plus, it can fit snuggly into a Galaxy.

I forsee some squads will dedicate themselves to doing just this on each continent without any direction. Just running around refilling siloes. Its worth BEPs and its an important job.

[Airlift]

I still haven't decided what I think of this (aside from the fact that while I may carry an ANT around in my galaxy, I'll probably never drive one to get it filled up). I think if it sucks and breaks gameplay it will be removed in beta. On the other hand, if it is a pleasant suprise and it turns out to be fun to make a fuel run past a line of defenders (not likely if the ANT is as slow and weak as I suspect), it may be one of the best parts of Planetside.

Either way, I like that they are looking for ways to add depth and variance to gameplay. Let's just hope that a Silo lasts about a week.

[NewmanOnIsland]

Um Afex I just read that too.
I like doing that stuff.
not ALL the time, but sure anything to help the cause.
PLus I'm sure the opfor will be gunning for me on the road and I'll have to out-run/ avoid them. That sounds like fun too.

I do see your point though.

NewmanOnIsland

[afex]

Mazelmavin: but thats what im saying

the only way i forsee the ANTs getting refueled effectively is if an outfit dedicates themselves to doing it. so in a normal "pub" fight, it just wont happen.

that was a problem that t2 had. TWL competition was very fun for me, especially when my team was in the top 10 of our ladder and the teams were very good. the action was feirce, and fast. but pub games SUCKED. and that was b/c defense was too easy so an unorganized offense had no chance.

do you see the parallels i'm trying to draw here? in the "normal" fight, it will be unorganized. every fight wont be outfit A defending against outfit B. it will be just whoever happens to be logged in and at that base.

[LesserShade]

^Yes, this may not be so bad I'm thinking. Also, SJ mentioned that they are working on tweaking time that a silo powers a base right? I wonder how long that is.. an hour.... 4 hours? less? If it's something that you have to do every 30 minutes, that will get old quick.. but if it's something that a team only has to do a every couple of hours it probably won't be so bad, and would make attacking a little more interesting because you might want to plan around attacking when a base's silo is getting close to empty.

Who knows, hopefully if this ends up being bunk, it will get worked out in beta

[Incompetent]

You act like your going to have to run back and forth every thirty seconds, i would bet two or three guys could keep an entire continent running(not counting escorts of course), not to mention the things will be fight magnets. The driver can just rotate with one of the escorts every run as well. Sides, serious outfits are going to be the ones making the runs, and its hard to say no to someone with the power to boot you from your unit.

[LesserShade]

I don't want to compare this game to DAoC too much, but there are some similarities. In that game though, when ppl are just running around randomly nothing really gets accomplished, usually what ends up happening is a few clans get together and coordinate an attack on a keep, and that's how it gets taken, I have a feeling that the random t2 pub style play isn't going to really get any bases captured, regardless of whether or not a team of defenders has to haul the giant duracell from the warp gate to the base silo every hour (at least i hope).


^^i agree with incompetent though, i have a feeling that anything that involves more than just shooting the bad guy will probably end up being the responsibility of an outfit of some experienced players who know what to do, and know what is important to take a base.

[Mazelmavin]

I think I see the problem. I don't think of each base as its own fight. I see the fight for a continent or a good sized section. There won't be any "pub fights" per se. Its all a pub fight.

What will happen is that a "ANT squad" will form indepently and help keep all of its empires siloes filled.

If I'm wrong and each base is on its own, then your right. Filling your silo is going to be tedious.

[chaos1428]

I am really not too worried about it GETTING done, as I'm sure people will do it. I'm more concerned about it going neutral after a certain time has expired. Yes, it adds more depth, wth supply lines, and such, but it just measn an attacking force just has to "wait them out". Essentially, you wouldn't even need to attack. You could just cut off the supply lines, killing the ANTS, and thats it. The base goes neutral, take yer guys in, and take the base.

My question would be, whent he base is taken, does it have juice? Would base assault have to include an ANT parked in the bushes, waiting for your team to take the base?

Lets say, NC is defending the base from an attacking TR force, and the base flips to neutral. NC hacker hacks it, and its NC's again. Will it just imediatly flip back to neutral because theres no power, or will it start a new timer? If it just imediately flips back, then in order to cap the base, the TR attacking force will have to have an ANT parked outside, waiting. Meaning someone will have to guard it the whole assault. If it starts a new timer, then why not just let the power run out? You get a free dose every 15 minutes (time it takes to hack it)

the only answer to these questions is beta, so I guess we will just have to see. At least it gives us something new to talk about.

[Incompetent]

um chaos, its called a counter-attack, noone is going to just sit around after their supply lines have been cut. and the attackers can always have the initial casualties spawn back at a base and have them drive back in an ANT

[afex]

Originally posted by Mazelmavin
What will happen is that a "ANT squad" will form indepently and help keep all of its empires siloes filled.

If I'm wrong and each base is on its own, then your right. Filling your silo is going to be tedious.

right. exactly. we shouldn't have to DEPEND on individuals filling menial roles to necessitate gameplay.

the make-or-break is in the hands of the players and not the game.

what happens if you get online and the "ANT squad" isn't? you're fucked. it's not the games fault, but the players? it just doesn't work well.

[Mazelmavin]

what happens if you get online and the "ANT squad" isn't? you're fucked. it's not the games fault, but the players? it just doesn't work well.

Again, we are thinking on different levels.

I personally think "ANT Squads" will be competing with each other. I expect each continent that is being contested will have more then one "ANT squad", if not more than enough.

And when I say "ANT squad", I don't mean an outfit that always does that job. I mean a group of people who formed a squad(likely with a Galaxy), and decided to refuel siloes unitl they get wiped out or bored.

It will be likea MMORPG:
"ANT squad with Galaxy looking for skeeter pilot guard"

[Warborn]

Hm. The ANT system prevents people from squatting in a base for an excessive duration, as they'll quickly run out of resources (quickly being "within a few hours"). It also provides some additional work for people to do, specifically the ability to disrupt the enemy's ability to attack by intercepting ANTs en route. That fact alone makes me believe that driving an ANT will not be a piece of cake, and will actually require an escort (similar to supply convoys in WW2).

So as far as I'm concerned, this change is good provided they get the speed at which bases deplete right. If you need to refuel a base every hour, then yeah, it'd be terrible. But if bases could last over 24 hours without fuel if they're not being used, and even better, could last several hours if they're a flurry of activity, then it'll be fine. Impatient newbies may not take to the thought of it, but I know I'd be more than happy to fill such a critical role if it were required, or to even escort an ANT if the enemy was busy intercepting convoys to cut off supplies to a base it was about to attack. Could be a lot of fun, I think.

[Hamma]

MMOFPS != FPS

I do see your points, but I dont think it will be all that big of an issue. We will see in Beta and Open Beta I guess.