No recerting

FortunadoAE · 2011-04-04, 01:15 AM

Certification management was a huge drag on gameplay and should be taken out.

-Too many rules. 24 hours before this, can only forget so many of these, make it simple and permanent instead.

-Yeah it was handy to be able to have a squad member run in and cert hacker if you didn't have one. But the only reason you didn't have one is because they weren't valued. And they weren't valued because someone could always run in and cert hacker...

-Outfit members never had permanent roles. One week a guy would be a reliable medic and the next he'd be using HA and not have med gear anymore. It completely messed up expectations and probably tripled the "ANYONE MEDIC???" type of messages.

-Forget keeping track of outfit members-- try your own characters. If you didn't play very often you'd go into battle completely forgetting oh, hey, I'm a pilot now. Whoops.

-Equipment! It's not just changing certs at a terminal, but also all of your preset loadouts. You could change ONE cert and suddenly lose all of your presets.

Make 'em permanent! The first 7 levels are easy anyway.

DviddLeff · 2011-04-04, 02:26 AM

No way. All this will lead to is people having as many alts as possible.

SKYeXile · 2011-04-04, 03:02 AM

yea... no, alot of people like me only play prettymuch one character, while im cool with having long respec timers and stuff. I think I speak for alot of people when I say we definatly do not want this in planetside.

Its one of the things that makes Planetside unique, on the one character in planetside iv played, infil, max whore, grunt, pilot.

Personally I think it kept me playing longer since iv been able to play so many different rolls on the one character.

TRex · 2011-04-04, 03:20 AM

ditto to the above ..don't want classes in any form ty

howether , I think they should allow you a ''forget all'' option to certs on maybe a 24hr timer or something, as well as the normal 6hr cd as it is.

Lonehunter · 2011-04-04, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

No way. All this will lead to is people having as many alts as possible.

Sirisian · 2011-04-04, 03:26 AM

You should really add a poll so it's easier to see that no one agrees with this. I'm in the group that only uses a single character. Even though I stick to the same few certs most of the time I sometimes get bored and try something new for a day.

So instead of a single character you want outfits to have multiple alt characters for each player? I could see myself deleting my main character because I don't like using more than one name.

Peacemaker · 2011-04-04, 03:52 AM

Ive got like 8 chars but I use only one. No. Forget all please. Once every week.

TRex · 2011-04-04, 04:33 AM

Had a bit of a rethink on this , what if you could play as your main character but you could unlock dual spec ?

What I mean is , hopefully they will limit levels to BR23/25 and associated certs that go with that. So , you maybe able to continue levelling but no extra certs though hopefully some merit unlocks to customise your character and make you more of an individual.

What if, at BR25 , you unlocked the ability to dual cert , on a 6hr cooldown , with a 2 minute 'vulnerability phase' where you have no stamina and inability to use weapons during the transition. Say you just hit BR25 , changed to alt spec (which meant you still were a BR25 in appearance etc) but you effectively had zero certs now, and had to re-acquire certs by levelling again.
The xp you gain would continue to level your main toon, but cert wise would be like levelling a new character again.

You would remove the whole BR40 scenario since you were limited to what certs you could have at = BR25 . Howether , for people who want to play their main character and not a tonne of alts within their outfit , this could be a way around it. You could have your primary spec as grunt / air cav , then switch to start working on being a driver /support ..or whatever.

Say its during the day and rest of you outfit dosen't come on until night , you could play your alt spec during that time then switch to your main spec to be more useful at night.

I don't think it would make anyone overpowered per se , since you would be effectively trying to level from BR25 onwards with little to no certs again. Some may look at this as a nice challenge, or not , or stick to one spec and just level an alt . But the option could be there to play your main character only if you wish . You could still re-cert ofc, but now you have 2 specs to go at.

As a sub-note, having an alt spec and unlocking it , would give you 10 new favourite slots to use in that spec.

FortunadoAE · 2011-04-04, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by TRex

Had a bit of a rethink on this , what if you could play as your main character but you could unlock dual spec ?

What I mean is , hopefully they will limit levels to BR23/25 and associated certs that go with that. So , you maybe able to continue levelling but no extra certs though hopefully some merit unlocks to customise your character and make you more of an individual.

What if, at BR25 , you unlocked the ability to dual cert , on a 6hr cooldown , with a 2 minute 'vulnerability phase' where you have no stamina and inability to use weapons during the transition. Say you just hit BR25 , changed to alt spec (which meant you still were a BR25 in appearance etc) but you effectively had zero certs now, and had to re-acquire certs by levelling again.
The xp you gain would continue to level your main toon, but cert wise would be like levelling a new character again.

You would remove the whole BR40 scenario since you were limited to what certs you could have at = BR25 . Howether , for people who want to play their main character and not a tonne of alts within their outfit , this could be a way around it. You could have your primary spec as grunt / air cav , then switch to start working on being a driver /support ..or whatever.

Say its during the day and rest of you outfit dosen't come on until night , you could play your alt spec during that time then switch to your main spec to be more useful at night.

I don't think it would make anyone overpowered per se , since you would be effectively trying to level from BR25 onwards with little to no certs again. Some may look at this as a nice challenge, or not , or stick to one spec and just level an alt . But the option could be there to play your main character only if you wish . You could still re-cert ofc, but now you have 2 specs to go at.

As a sub-note, having an alt spec and unlocking it , would give you 10 new favourite slots to use in that spec.

TRex: That's a really cool idea. Reminds me of weapon-switching in D2. Two characters in one almost. I think this would be a good compromise... You should be a game designer! This also curbs certflation and has a great "New game+" feel to it.

Everyone else: I think using "I only have one character" isn't an effective argument here. I think multiple characters should be encouraged (or, a solution like TRex's above). Again, that's the way it's done in almost every other MMO.

It also wouldn't be 'classes'-- it'd be the same cert system as now, just with no recerts.

Make recerts rare. A reward a player gets at one year. Or something an entire outfit gets if they get some honor.

The important thing here is that you're playing a game with other people. The expectation of role is the most important point of all of my points. The only way PS:N will ever be big is if they focus on social cohesion.

And let's face it: It's going to be either solid gameplay systems like this that naturally encourage social gameplay, or shitty Farmville/WoW grindfest mechanics.

wildcat140679 · 2011-04-04, 10:09 AM

I’m glad we were allowed to reconfigure our certifications every now and then. This allowed you (without the need of creating alts) experience all aspects of PlanetSide. Over time you end up with the right certification configuration what you feel you are really good at and works well for your playing style.

If you believe locking certification choices is the solution then you’re very mistaken. Multiple alts will be created with different roles/certification layouts. People will keep on doing this until they have found the perfect soldier skill layout that fits there playing style.

So instead of having Player A being a Adv Medic one week and swapping them for Heavy Assault the next week, you will end up with Player A the Adv medic is online one week, and Player A his Alt. is online the next week with Heavy Assault.

You end up with outfits of 100 members in size, what is so full of alts that it`s actually only 20 actual players in size.

No, Certifications being permanent doesn't sound like a good nor appealing solution. I believe that up to some degree, it has more to do with what the certification has to offer, how rewarding it is and how often they are able to actually use it with in there playing style.

Take Advanced Medic for example, as much as people had need for it, the fact that 99% of the fallen soldiers would not wait to call out for a medic to get them back on there feet and instead just re-spawn, doesn't make the job very rewarding to be a Adv Medic. Only in well co-ordinated squad/platoon (outfit) you will have use of them and still then players will choice to re-spawn in stead of being revived.

LordReaver · 2011-04-04, 09:41 AM

I see no point in changing the system. If you are worried about things like uncerting medium assault to uncert ha, sniping, sa, and av, the solution is simple. You don't allow uncerting a bottom level cert, until the top ones are uncerted.

FortunadoAE · 2011-04-04, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by LordReaver

I see no point in changing the system. If you are worried about things like uncerting medium assault to uncert ha, sniping, sa, and av, the solution is simple. You don't allow uncerting a bottom level cert, until the top ones are uncerted.

I'm not suggesting a change to the system. I'm suggesting getting rid of a system! When something is this big and entangled it becomes its own system.

It's unneeded complexity. The game should only be complex in areas where it really adds to gameplay, and decerting isn't one of those areas.

It's confusing to new players. It's a chore to old players.

It destroys your sense of character. Your character is a level, not a character filling a role. If you were describing your Planetside character to a friend, how would you do it? "Oh, he's uh... a level 25 guy."

But again, the social expectations thing is the biggest point. Give people permanent roles and you solidify teamplay.

Duddy · 2011-04-04, 09:58 AM

Yeah... you've clearly not thought this through.

Ever considered the effect this would have on new players for example? They have little to no idea what they are doing... so what happens when they pick up certs that have absolutely no synergy w/e?

Are they just supposed to go "Oh darn" and start again? Bollocks. The Diablo series is dropping that very mechanic for this reason. It sucks. Who wants to have to waste all that time simply due to inexperience or a mistake?

You talk about "sense of character" and "permanency", the system is about as permanent as it needs to be. You can't change between roles rapidly, but if you really want to change it allows you to do so over time.

As for your sense of character, well frankly that is down to you. If you spend all your time flip-flopping between certs then that is your problem. Most people I know tend to stick to certain certs.

Honestly, you haven't considered this at all, beyond its effect on how you play.

FortunadoAE · 2011-04-04, 10:17 AM

Good arguments, Duddy.

Diablo is indeed moving away from it, but I don't know if Diablo is a good model. It's almost an MMO but not quite there. Do they let you do this in WoW or EQ? I think those are better places to look.

Again, I don't think decerts should be taken out entirely, just the ease at which it's done. Make them a reward that you can earn, not a "Do cert management every 24 hours" chore. The worst thing you can put in an MMO is a chore without an attached reward mechanism. And that's exactly what cert management is now.

Of course, it's no good to just say "it should be this way" without attaching ideas. So here's some ideas on ways it could happen:

-You get one decert point every 100 kills.
-Enemies randomly drop them.
-It's an empire benefit for locking one of the continents.
-Your outfit gets a handful to give out as rewards every 10,000 outfit points (or whatever) - This is my personal favorite
-Give them away to attendees of events

Planetside likes to stay away from any form of capital or economic exchange, but I'd also like to see them as an actual in-game item. Could be cool. It could look like the red flashy thing from Men in Black.

Duddy · 2011-04-04, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by FortunadoAE

Good arguments, Duddy.

Diablo is indeed moving away from it, but I don't know if Diablo is a good model. It's almost an MMO but not quite there. Do they let you do this in WoW or EQ? I think those are better places to look.

Again, I don't think decerts should be taken out entirely, just the ease at which it's done. Make them a reward that you can earn, not a "Do cert management every 24 hours" chore. The worst thing you can put in an MMO is a chore without an attached reward mechanism. And that's exactly what cert management is now.

Well I know for sure that you can "re-cert" in WoW, and it is a relatively minor cost there too. More minor in fact. Which would stand against your ideals :P

I'm all for making it something you earn, possibly that might be something you could finally use outfit points on eh? At least for forget all re-certs, I think the standard re-cert timer should remain however.

As for it being a chore... yeah it is only if you are trying to re-cert everything without a "forget all". Which would be a good reason to make it an earn-able thing rather than sporadic and "random" occurrence.

Either way, I would prefer not to see re-certing become a trivial matter, it should take time to do. Either by slowly over time, or by spending time to build up a "forget all".