Is anyone nervous?

CzaR · 2011-07-09, 01:54 PM

The more interviews I read the more it is starting to seem they are trying to make a knock off of MW2 with vehicles.

They are removing things that made Planetside ... well... Planetside; and frankly, it's pissing me off. Class systems? I like the cert system, it makes people make choices and give them a role to specialize in. It's immensely stupid if in an outdoor battle everyone can switch over to being a sniper between deaths. No HART? Spawn with your Squad? Deaths are punished in MMOs for a reason. Making a fast spawn system only encourages non-stop zerging without any planning or teamwork and frankly takes the fun out of dropping on a base, hacking it, and hoping you can hold on until it's over. Kill Streaks? I don't know about you guys but I like the fact if you turn a corner and win a 1v2 in Planetside it's an accomplishment. You do that in a standard FPS... who cares everyone can do that.

Planetside was unique and awesome, and I really don't like how they are trying to make it like everything else. Anyone else agree? Or am I way off base here?

etheral · 2011-07-09, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by CzaR

It's immensely stupid if in an outdoor battle everyone can switch over to being a sniper between deaths.

That is EXACTLY what we do in PS1. You do know that, right?

CzaR · 2011-07-09, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by etheral

That is EXACTLY what we do in PS1. You do know that, right?

Not everyone has sniper cert, don't pretend they do.

PsychoXR-20 · 2011-07-09, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by CzaR

Not everyone has sniper cert, don't pretend they do.

I don't believe it has been stated if everyone can pick any class at any time, and even if you can, I really don't see that being a problem.

Firstly, anyone who has any interest in a particular role (such as sniping) will have it certed. Those who have no interest will not. In PS2 those who have no interest in sniping will just never pick the sniping class. Everyone in Modern Warfare has access to sniper rifles, guess what, in the 4 years that game has been out I've probably picked up a sniper less than a dozen times, and probably have just as many kills, I simply don't like sniping in that game, so I never choose to roll out with a sniper rifle. If I decide that I hate sniping is PS2, despite the fact that the sniper class will be available to me at all times, I won't choose it. People aren't going to play roles they can't stand just because they are there.

Secondly, it will probably have the exact opposite effect on support type roles. If anyone can grab the vanguard class, or the galaxy class at any time, you're going to see a lot more people willing to drive a vanguard, or fly a galaxy, since they don't have to sacrifice anything to do so.

Besides, at BR25+ people have so many certifications that they pretty much already have access to everything they could need/want to do. So yes, people are already doing this.

BorisBlade · 2011-07-09, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by etheral

That is EXACTLY what we do in PS1. You do know that, right?

Thats due to the now overinflated br ranks with too many certs. The system before that was fine and could still work. Their classes arent so bad if done right. We dont know enough details honestly tho. They may seem unlimited but hopefully you do get limited and specialize some. If you can eventually get everything and change up on the fly (as you spawn is my guess) then thats flat out terrible and puts us back in the problems we have with the inflated ps1 system.

Dreamcast · 2011-07-09, 04:08 PM

I actually love the idea, here's why.

Sniper/medic combo fucked up sniping in PS1...Basically since there was no headshots, each time you shot a sniper, he just healed himself...It was so annoying.

Of course in Planetside 2, your a sniper can still pair up with a medic but atleast that requires some teamwork and one less soldier on the map.

SO yes I agree there should be a medic/Engineer/infil class......but I would like it if combat roles only, were treated just like combat roles....so we can choose to be a sniper/jackhammer guy etc.

Vancha · 2011-07-09, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Planetside

Sniper/medic combo fucked up sniping in PS1...Basically since there was no headshots, each time you shot a sniper, he just healed himself...It was so annoying.

Hence the reason you flanked enemy snipers, or waited for a friendly sniper to fire at them first so you could finish them off before they retreated. I hope no one switched off their brain to the extent that they just kept shooting at snipers that simply ducked down and re-healed...

Sniping's going to be an interesting thing to balance in PS2. If it's 2-shot kills, no one's going to want to pop their head back up at half-health. If it's 1-shot kills/headshots, no matter how hard the shots are to land, people who are good with it are going to commit mass slaughter.

Back to the original question, yes I'm nervous. After hearing all the information from FanFaire, I'm relatively confident SOE knows what they're doing so far, and so long as they come through on their promises to listen to the beta testers and change something if it needs changing, PS2 should end up being decent at worst.

Death2All · 2011-07-09, 04:38 PM

I was a little nervous in the sense that Smeldonious kept referring to BF when he was talking about things he wanted to do with PS. I've not played much BF, but I know the general consensus is that it's a good game. However, I don't want people to play PS2 and think of BF because of all the aspects of that game applied to this one.

Sure, it may have it's own unique game style to it, but if gameplay is essentially the same then it would be a let down.

HunterMaximus · 2011-07-09, 05:17 PM

I feel a bit better having watched the session videos (think they were on gametrailers.com, they're linked in one of the FAQ threads here), but I'm also concerned about how they seem to be modelling a lot after the Battlefield and CoD series. The weapon and vehicle enhancements/additions give me a little pause, given the complexity it would bring to balancing things, but like the skills/BR/cert system, it hasn't been fully explained yet so I'll reserve judgement for later.
At one point one of the devs (I think Matt Higby) mentioned briefly that they were increasing the lethality of the weapons, which I'm definitely not in favour of. While PS definitely had its share of pacing issues, I liked the direct combat pace for the most part. Yes it's not as fast paced as a lot of "realistic" modern shooters, but I think that's a good thing. It can lend a more tactical feel to the game, as well as making it more accessible to newbies (dying a lot is going to happen, but it's less frustrating when you at least have time to process what's happening).
I think my main concern is embodied in a description of what they were aiming for with PS2, which was essentially (my paraphrasing) "take a ton of great stuff from modern shooters (CoD/MW, Battlefield) and mix it in with a bunch of good stuff from MMOs". That sounds great and all, but I'm worried about trying to do too much and stuffing in a lot of features, at the cost of quality. Given the history of SOE development, I'd hope they start by keeping things simple, doing a core set of things really really well, rather than tacking on a whole bunch of things because it sounds cool.

Hopefully though, they know what they're doing. It's been 3 years since I've played any Planetside, and I really hope that I can look forward to some more of the awesomeness I remember.

Surge72 · 2011-07-09, 02:25 PM

And not everyone will have the sniper cert. in Planetside 2 either. They are still going to be using a quasi. cert system, just in a different form such as this 'skill tree' they mention.

MooK · 2011-07-09, 02:30 PM

To be honest we don't know what this whole class system and new certification system is about. I don't like classes, but I'm willing to let them show us their version.

I really think removing sanctuaries, and the HART, as well as developing or removing additional aspects of the game in an attempt to "speed up" combat is a terrible idea. Simply put, this game takes time--and that's extremely important. And no, if you even for a moment think that people left the game because of the time it takes to get into combat, you're dead wrong. People left because it was not managed appropriately and abandoned by whomever was in charge of delegating intelligent developers.

I like the concept of the skill tree. Anything that remotely reminds me of Deus Ex cannot be a bad move.

Sifer2 · 2011-07-09, 02:37 PM

I think some are being too quick to cry doom an gloom. Yes they seem to be somewhat catering to the MW generation. However when you read deeper into some of the mechanics they make more sense. The squad spawn for example. It's not like Battlefield its done by drop pod. So useless indoors an you will see new respawns coming from the sky to be ready to shoot em. And in beta they will probably adjust the times on it to make it feel right so its not an endless zerg.

As for the class system wait until we actually see the skill trees. I think its clear they want to do away with the anti-everything high BR soldier. But its possible there will be a high degree of customization still.

PsychoXR-20 · 2011-07-09, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Sifer2

I think its clear they want to do away with the anti-everything high BR soldier.

To be fair to the doom and gloom crowd, this is a pretty simple problem to fix, and that's simply limit the amount of certifications available to players.

However, the vast majority of the player base will probably be playing for themselves, that is to say they will grab (in PS1) medical and engineering, not to they can heal and repair others, but so they can heal and repair themselves. They won't pick up the galaxy because it doesn't benefit them, they wont cert vanguard because driving isn't as fun as gunning, nor is it as rewarding.

By moving to a class based system were everyone has access to everything, but those everythings are more specialized, those people might be more inclined to grab a vanguard now and and again, since they can do so without having to sacrifice something else that benefits them for the next 6 hours.

I'll be honest, I'm a grunt and a mossie/reaver pilot. I've never certed galaxy because galaxies don't bring in the XP, they help the war effort, but they don't help me personally. I've never certed AMS because I don't want to give up AV, or HA to do so. But I can guarantee you that if I could grab a vanguard without having to forget sniping, I would. I'd love to grab adv. hacking once and a while, but I don't want to give up my reaver for 6 hours to do so.

Raymac · 2011-07-09, 02:44 PM

When the creative director of Planetside 2 calls the cert system on Planetside 1 "genius", then I'm not going to worry about them straying too far from that.

Basically, I'm alot less nervous about PS2 being awesome today than I was 2 weeks ago.

Snow · 2011-07-09, 02:46 PM

I can't imagine how the game could realistically be balanced by launch even if there is a long beta.
If you look at WoW, which had an exceptionally long closed beta and then 3 phases of open beta, there were still aspects of the game that were severely unbalanced at it's launch.

The best we can hope for is that the basic systems they build are flexible enough that they can be constantly rebalanced.

No system will ever be perfect.