Gameplay: Base Defenses

NapalmEnima · 2011-07-28, 01:01 PM

One of the things that bugged me about bases in PlanetSide is that they're DESIGNED TO BE CAPTURED. Given two forces, the one on the inside of the base doesn't have much of an advantage over the one on the outside of the base. In fact, the folks on the outside are more likely to have vehicles, giving them an ADVANTAGE over the freshly spawned infantry types trying to hold the walls.

(edit: In retrospect, while the initial wave hitting the base is more likely to have vehicles, as soon as the battle gets passed that point, folks start spawning in AMSes and nearby towers to zerg their way in... meh).

OTOH, turning all bases into death traps won't be much fun for the attackers. They'd need massively superior numbers/firepower to take a well-designed base from those defending it.

Solution:
Make the Solid Defense portions of a base destroyable/deployable. Suddenly not-necessarily-accurate-but-powerful artillery is Very Helpful when trying to attack a base. You need to blow some chunks out of the walls to expose those otherwise great fighting positions. Infantry-carried explosives to breach walls.

Give the walls a ROOF. But one that can be removed with the application of sufficient explosives. Mossy/reaver strafing runs aren't going to work so well until some bomber/arty scrapes away some of their cover. Reaver rockets might do the trick in quantity.

Infiltrators with ACEs (or PS2's equivalent) could sneak up to the wall, plant charges, and detonate them from a Safe Distance.

As far as improved deployable defenses goes, there's a Historical Precedent called Hoardings. Fireproofed wooden sheds attached to the outside of a castle wall during a siege to allow defenders to attack directly downward. Here's a (large) piccy. The near tower and walls have hoardings installed, the far tower does not.

The simple/ancient arrow slit would be a vast improvement over the railings PS's bases have. A sniper could still tag you through one, but massed fire would have to actually chew through the wall first, or get Very Lucky.

Thoreaux · 2011-07-28, 05:02 PM

I like this. Balance-wise, a fortified and manned base shouldn't be breakable by simply crashing into it like a wave of brain-dead lemmings. Every base should give defenders more of an advantage in terms of positions and cover than ps1 did. It should be easy to hold out (even against a numerically superior foe) if the attackers aren't using good tactics and teamwork.

I think the best solution is to punish players who simply try to beat on the base until it goes down. Turrets need to be more powerful, better protected, and easier to keep operational. Giving engineers more fortification abilities in general would be a good thing. Ramparts need better cover, and murder-holes for defenders to shoot down from.

In terms of how to destroy these base fortifications... force fields/energy shields, IMO, are the way to go. They fit the lore and they make sense from a vulnerability standpoint. They're plausibly very hard to simply break down, and easy to repair/recharge for an engineer, but a single hacker could drop them all at once; exposing the base turrets and rampart soldiers. Alternatively, a few well-placed explosives into an exposed power conduit or junction box could drop sections at a time. It encourages players using their brains, which is always good.

NapalmEnima · 2011-07-28, 06:25 PM

Other things Real Bases/fortresses/castles have that PS bases don't:

Killing Fields. Bases in PS have lots of cover NEAR THEM. That's a terrible idea defensively speaking. Move those boulders, cut down the trees... give the attackers nothing to hide behind for at least 100 yards in every direction.

By forcing attackers to cover the last N yards completely exposed, you make them much more vulnerable.

Agreed, the trees on Auraxis seem to be remarkably durable, so cutting them down? Not such an option.

nathanebht · 2011-07-28, 10:39 PM

Pretty sure one of the SOE recordings mentioned Engineers laying down mine fields.

Hope Engineers get more of a role on defense than just repairing stuff. Remember it being aggravating to repair wall turrets in a hot battle, then keep them repaired while someone else hopped in to mow down the attackers. I did it because I knew it was valuable but it wasn't too fun.

NapalmEnima · 2011-07-29, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by nathanebht

Pretty sure one of the SOE recordings mentioned Engineers laying down mine fields.

Hope Engineers get more of a role on defense than just repairing stuff. Remember it being aggravating to repair wall turrets in a hot battle, then keep them repaired while someone else hopped in to mow down the attackers. I did it because I knew it was valuable but it wasn't too fun.

There's an idea for a spiffy engineer unlockable: Repair it While I'm In It. Start of at say %50 of normal, train up to %75 of normal, something like that, where "normal" is whatever your trained repair rate is with your caulk gun).

Sovereign · 2011-07-29, 02:44 PM

I'd really like to see alternative means to base defense besides the standard norm especially inside the base and even when the generator is out..

Perhaps simple barricades and other so low tech solutions would be a welcomed addition.

NapalmEnima · 2011-07-29, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Sovereign

I'd really like to see alternative means to base defense besides the standard norm especially inside the base and even when the generator is out..

Perhaps simple barricades and other so low tech solutions would be a welcomed addition.

It's easy to set up static structures that favor people on one side or the other. Take "arrow slits" for example. Someone on the inside has a reasonably wide field of view/fire, while folks on the outside can only see through a very narrow space.

PS1 did this only very rarely, and not very effectively. U-shaped stacks of crates are the only example I can think of.

MasterChief096 · 2011-07-29, 07:49 PM

I think killing fields would be a bit too overpowered for the defenders in all honesty. 100 yards of zero cover for the attackers while the defenders are guns blazing from the walls and courtyard? Come on...

My proposal is that you have a 150-200 yard "killing field" surrounding the base, but its sub-divided into two zones.

Zone 1 - Outer defense structures - Bunkers, trench systems, automated turrets of varying weapon types (nothing too substantial that its OP) that form a ring on the edge of the killing field for guard purposes etc. All of these structures would have to be connected in some way either via underground tunnels or what have you.

The primary purpose of this zone is to give defensive structures to the defenders, but give the attackers something to fight for on their way to the base. If the attackers can capture a portion of this zone, they can use the methods in which it is connected to capture other parts of this zone. It gives attackers a means of capturing enemy cover while assaulting a base.

Zone 2 - Second tier of defensive structures - slightly larger bunkers, more trench systems, and small walls in which defenders can take cover behind. Everything inter-connected like zone 1. Gives attackers another objective and more cover that they can "capture" from the defenders while on their way to the base.

Zone 3 - The base itself.

Having just a flat out 100 yard killing field would make it immensely difficult for attackers to have any hope of victory. But having structures on the EDGE of this killing field, and in the MIDDLE of this killing field, that the attackers can push towards and capture, would even it out a bit.

And by capture I don't mean hack and take over the structures, I mean simply kill the enemies in them and use them for yourself.

It would also lead to some interesting tactical fights. Taking your squad/platoon, breaching a bunker in zone 1, and then having to fight through trenches/underground tunnels to try and clear out the defenders from the entirety of zone 1 to make room for your empire to begin taking advantage of it. After clearing zone 1 your empire could use it as a ''staging area'' and begin an assault on zone 2 from multiple directions, confusing defenders and forcing them to be more on top of their game.

nathanebht · 2011-07-31, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by NapalmEnima

There's an idea for a spiffy engineer unlockable: Repair it While I'm In It. Start of at say %50 of normal, train up to %75 of normal, something like that, where "normal" is whatever your trained repair rate is with your caulk gun).

I'm hoping for a floating automated repair bot. I can deploy it and it slowly conducts repairs. Not as good as if the Engineer is using his repair tool but provides some flexibility.

Don't like the "I'm a walking repair field" concept. Makes me lose immersion. You should see something or someone making repairs. Not have some goofy magical glow.

nathanebht · 2011-07-31, 01:00 AM

A killing field around a base is realistic. I always found the lack of this in PS1 to take me out of a game. If your going to build walls around a base, you of course are going to clear out the vegetation outside.

You should need to use ground and air vehicles to take a base. Artillery would be used too. Suppress the defenders, make them withdraw within the walls. Your troopers then can assault.