Freemium or cash shop?

[raykor]

I think the freemium business model is a very fair way to implement a free-to-play game. It is essentially an endless trial that lets you play for free but locks certain features of the game for the “premium” players who choose to pay a traditional monthly fee.

(In a game like Planetside 2, that might include things like: limiting how far into a skill tree you can progress; lowering the speed at which skills advance; not allowing you to lead a squad or outfit; locking certain armors, vehicles, or weapons; that sort of stuff.)

Games are not charities: if you pay nothing you can still get a lot of the features but ultimately the goal is to convince you that the game is worth subscribing to.

I don’t like the cash shop business model; it inevitably feels like they are trying to nickel-and-dime players. No matter how carefully a company tries to implement it, there is always the very real likelihood that they will end up “selling power”. It also puts the developers in a horrible catch-22 in which they need to offer items that players will want to buy or face financial failure.

[EASyEightyEight]

Cash shop for aesthetics. Subscription for faster advancement and other small, beneficial, non-exclusive perks.

I think that's the model they're considering anyway.

[Grimster]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Cash shop for aesthetics. Subscription for faster advancement and other small, beneficial, non-exclusive perks.

I think that's the model they're considering anyway.

Second that that is in my opinion a good path for a subscription model to take.

[Zulthus]

Don't say subscription for faster advancement, say subscription for normal advancement. Cash shop is fine for AESTHETICS only IMO.

[sylphaen]

I liked the reserves concept in PS1. Basically, you could still have a functional character though very limited and that would depend on other players for what it did not specialize in. But you did have fun an would still play a significant role in battles.

So I wouldn't mind something similar with a monhtly subscription (i.e. having more optionsn less restricting skill progression, versatility in recerting, etc...)

I loved levelling in PS1 and getting my certs. As a comparison, I do hate the BF unlock system.

ANyways, just an opinion... Essentially, I believe that players should feel tempted positively to the idea of getting a sub, not feel forced to do it to stay competitive or enjoy the game. How it's implemented matters less than the concept behind.

[TRex]

I envision it to go something like this :

Cosmetics available via cash shop ,or won via in-game events etc , time served unlocks. For everyone ,sub or no sub

Sub player (or premium player) all classes unlocked , all trees unlocked ,natural progression through game .Can make maximum of 3 toons per server.

Ftp player -can level to BR20 'theoretically' . Classes limited to light armour ,heavy armour . Can make a maximum of 1 toon per server . Max ,infil, medic, engineer available to buy as extras. Cert levelling available while playing , off line levelling available via unlock purchaseable from store.

While playing /killing /capturing stuff you earn credits (non-tradeable) according to amount of prime resource your faction needs and acquires.Credits are shared for the account.Premium players get an allocation of 500 credits per month as part of sub. Or credits could be unlocked via the merit list ie 10 for bronze ,15 for silver, 20 for gold ,25 for auraxium for each merit line . Exploration rewards merits , etc .

The 'theoretical' part above (for ftp player) is that in order to level and gain enough credits to get to br20 and max out most of your skills ,you will probably need to level a toon on all 3 servers to gain enough points for your 'main' character to spend them . Ofc , credits are available from the store at $ x.xx per 1000.

Store exclusives :

Cert reset token :made a mistake with your cert tree ? or don't want to be a medic any more and want to specialise as a prowler driver? Buy the cert reset token for 95 credits
Squad leader unlock :tired of being the monkey and feel your inner desire to tell others what to do ? then unlock the real Napoleon within yourself and unlock squad leader in the cert tree for 595 credits.
Cert acceleration token : earn double cert points for 1hr /4hrs/ 24hrs at 95credits/ 360 credits/ 2000credits respectively.
Infiltrator always wanted to be the sneaky type? infiltrator class unlock now on special offer ,20% off for 595 credits
Max ,Medic , Engineer all available for 685 credits.
Extra character Unlock unlocks 1 extra char slot on all servers for your account 995 credits


A lot of the above is tongue-in-cheek .But it is a ftp model .You can do everything in the game for free , but it takes a long time to have access to everything.You don't buy power , just the ability to access what everyone who has a sub has , as a carrot.
Even things like the cert acceleration token may be of interest to subscription players , there will be many who want to be the first on a server, or get everything to max asap to be on the leaderboard etc.

The plus' to this model is that anyone can download the game and run around as a grunt and have fun for no charge . It fills the servers up with 'fodder', and even vets may run disposable 'farming'toons on another server just to earn credits for their main to spend elsewhere.
As a business model , in general the best subscrition players are those that don't play :the company gets paid every month and they dont add to the server stress or whine on forums etc.But they earn credits per month for 'existing' and get offline progression for not playing.
Ftp is different , you want them to play as much as possible , and be tempted to look at the store as often as possible. It fills servers , and a game like PS needs a big population all the time so everyone can unlock shit and gain more credits by acquiring resources or finishing off their 500 player in one lifetime merit reward etc

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Cash shop for aesthetics. Subscription for faster advancement and other small, beneficial, non-exclusive perks.

I think that's the model they're considering anyway.

What exactly is the difference between a $15 dollar subscription for increased experience gains, and a cash shop that sells you an increased experience gain buff for $15 that lasts a month.

Does calling the exact same result by a different term magically make it 'not selling power'?

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Freemium, cash shops are bad. Why can't we just have a normal game where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by skill?

Why can't we have a normal fps where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by their skill and their skill alone, with no arbitrary restrictions?

You know why. To draw out the game content. Dangle the carrot. Keep people playing, and hence paying, for longer.



Pay for power? So? Take the money you would have to spend on a normal subscription to simply play, and buy said power. Now everyones evened up. Cept now you have the option of playing for free, even if at a disadvantage, rather than not playing at all. That sounds familiar. It could be.. They've done this exact thing before. In PS1. You know, that fodderside program everyone loved.

Theres absolutely no difference between premium + freemium, and a store. The store is just a bit more granular.

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

What exactly is the difference between a $15 dollar subscription for increased experience gains, and a cash shop that sells you an increased experience gain buff for $15 that lasts a month.

Does calling the exact same result by a different term magically make it 'not selling power'?

It's not selling power, it's selling time. Don't confuse the two. In life everything has two prices: time and money. No exceptions. Whether or not one pays for a 30 day "skill training reduction" through a cash shop consumable or through a hard subscription is irrelevant. What's being offered is money in exchange for time. Instead of spending 365 days maxing out a tree, someone whom pays out $180 might max out a tree in 280 days. Could be 180 days, nearly halving the time, which even I would consider a little over the top, since it wouldn't be JUST speeding up leveling that they might be selling, but also shorter respawn times, increased resource income, etc. Nothing over the top beneficial (5 seconds shaved off here, an extra 10% income there,) but in an accumulative manner, one should notice the benefits.

This game will not survive without a good chunk of players providing a steady cash flow. Relying solely on single sale aesthetic items will not provide that cash flow, unless it's a gachapon/roulette stuffed full of random, useless/common crap no one wants and they find enough gambling addicts.

Maybe one would prefer to see Coca-Cola ads on billboards all over the continents? Doubt it. SOE needs to make money somehow, even if through selling side-grades or what one may deem "selling power." There won't be a PS2 for long without them. They're going F2P to keep the numbers up so we don't see PS1 all over again. Thus, they have to make their profits through other means.

[Lonehunter]

I really like the subscription method for a "premium" service, but still want a shop for items that don't affect game balance

Originally Posted by Hamma

EVE's skill system is great, but it's a bit to long. It's impossible to catch anyone who has been playing for years.

PlanetSide 2's system while similar should not be as involved and long as EVEs.

I was just thinking about this. They've all ready suggested a skill tree could take up to a year to fully maximize. I hope there aren't too many new people who join a year after release and feel like that's too big of a gap. That's why I think a low lvl having a shot at a vet should still be an important thing

[Sirisian]

To see the communities current feelings I'll direct you to this thread. My post categorized everyone's viewpoint making it easy to pull out data.

That's the problem of trying to describe things with a poll. People's feelings towards this are varied.

[Zulthus]

Freemium, cash shops are bad. Why can't we just have a normal game where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by skill?

[raykor]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Freemium, cash shops are bad. Why can't we just have a normal game where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by skill?

Well yea, personally I would have preferred a normal subscription game but that is out of the question so there is no point including that as an option.

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Freemium, cash shops are bad. Why can't we just have a normal game where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by skill?

Because the way the skill tree system is described, it's roughly based on time played, not how well you can place a shot, though it certainly should help. They were pretty distinct on wanting to allow players that don't have as much time to play as others to at least keep developing skill/power wise around the clock.

Subbing to speed up the process is just a good incentive. Pure aesthetics are good and all, but a lot of people will only pay for stuff that will help them in some way. It's about getting an edge somewhere, but it's not an exclusive edge. Freebies can still gain all the same things, it just takes them a little longer. When it comes to buying skills, I would hope that's just really unlocking skills that have prerequisites that need to be met first otherwise. Like needing (examples) [increased healing] and [adrenaline boost] before one can pick up [revive.] The revive skill could be unlocked via the cash shop, but the player still has to devote training time to making it worth while. Freebies will just have to unlock and train [increased healing] and [adrenaline boost] before they can access and work on [revive.]

What I'm getting at is: just because there's a cash shop doesn't mean SOE will be so irresponsible they'll be dropping 2x firepower power-ups that last for 24 hours for $5 a pop. While it might bring in big sales, it will effectively kill the population. SOE isn't a pack of drooling baboons with fabulous hair, I think they'll treat the cash shop with respect to player acceptances and expectations.

Besides, what's so wrong with a cash shop that sells aesthetics such as aviator sunglasses, handlebar mustaches, and bitchin' afros in a B2P game?

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

And what's so wrong with a cash shop that sells aesthetics such as aviator sunglasses, handlebar mustaches, and bitchin' afros in a B2P game?

Yea, wouldn't that be nice. It'll start out like that. Then come the xp 'potions', then the +5 health armor, then the better weapons. We all know it, don't deny it, they will eventually sell power no matter how much they deny it. It could be a few months, a year, maybe two, but it'll happen.

Here IS an example of selling power:

You have lets say, the Mini-Chaingun.

Chaingun 1 - Normal range, damage, COF.

Chaingun 2 - Bought from shop. Quarter range, Double damage, higher COF. (Example of 'trade-offs') You just sold power to anyone who uses it indoors.

[dsi]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Because the way the skill tree system is described, it's roughly based on time played, not how well you can place a shot, though it certainly should help. They were pretty distinct on wanting to allow players that don't have as much time to play as others to at least keep developing skill/power wise around the clock.

Subbing to speed up the process is just a good incentive. Pure aesthetics are good and all, but a lot of people will only pay for stuff that will help them in some way. It's about getting an edge somewhere, but it's not an exclusive edge. Freebies can still gain all the same things, it just takes them a little longer.

And what's so wrong with a cash shop that sells aesthetics such as aviator sunglasses, handlebar mustaches, and bitchin' afros in a B2P game?

Eve Online's skill system is amazing, no complaints if they rip it directly (and maybe lower the time scales)

Eve Online's skill system is amazing because veterans are veterans, but newbies can be bought up to speed and be made battle ready within a month (this is where "lowering the time scales" would come into play of course)

Paying to increase skill learning rate is hardly any different from classic Pay 2 Win.

If the cash shop only sold cosmetics, it'd be fine. But people always get screwed by cash shops with P2W so it's easier to say "stay away" than "do exactly this to succeed where others have failed". (TF2 gets away with it because there are so many other ways to obtain weapons) (and the comment above mine is a perfect example of "screwed by cash shops")