Drivers Main Weapon

Senyu · 2011-11-26, 09:29 AM

So I'm correct in understanding that the driver will control the main turret/weapon/cannon on the ES tanks right?

If so why? The Magrider in PS1 you needed the second gunner to control and rotate that cannon so you can effectivly drive and shoot at the same time. If it was up to the driver you would never see the Mag as effective as it was. It would be a pain trying to hit Aircraft with it to. It's like replacing the weapon the driver did have with the cannon which was much harder to hit with. Now PS2 Magrider I'm sure is going to be very different as will all the tanks. But the example I posted still remains. Why are they making it so everyone can popout a ES tank and not require teamwork/ally to have it be usefull? Yes a guy can hop in and use the secondary weapons....woohoo..ya they help but you can still roll with just the main weapon alone.

We don't need people treating ES main tanks like a more advance version of a Lighting. Make the main weapon the passengers weapon, add the teamplay and teamwork. I can understand giving enough power to people to be able to play by themselves but it should remain duel-effort for the ES Main Tanks.

Just might have to wait till beta though and see how it actually plays. But on paper it doesn't sound great :/

FIREk · 2011-11-26, 09:42 AM

We've been through this a bazillion times already. We'll see how it works in beta. If it's crap, I'm sure it will be changed.

One-person tanks are ineffective compared to two-person tanks. Just play Battlefield 3 to find out why, I can't be arsed to explain this again.

I'm more concerned about being able to spawn vehicles without cost. I'm wondering if it would be more beneficial if vehicles always cost resources (as far as I know, right now un-customized vehicles cost nothing). This way they won't be powerups, like in the Battlefield series, but effective, yet costly, tools that need to be treated properly, not driven kamikaze style to rake up kills before dying. Especially since there will be more vehicle spawning areas in PS2, if I understand the map correctly.
It would also give a bigger advantage to low-pop empires, since they would be able to field more vehicles, not just vehicles with slightly better, customized weapons.

ringring · 2011-11-26, 11:51 AM

The only picture I've seen of a prowler has 1 gun (therefore I assume this is the driver gun and a subsidiary gun hasn't been added) and that gun is in a fixed position shooting straight-ahead, rather like the Mag's PPA.

This makes having a secondary gunner absolutely essential I would have thought ...

It also makes the tactics of using the prowler rather interesting, especially given that the tank can't strafe unlike a magrider.

Xyntech · 2011-11-26, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

The only picture I've seen of a prowler has 1 gun (therefore I assume this is the driver gun and a subsidiary gun hasn't been added) and that gun is in a fixed position shooting straight-ahead, rather like the Mag's PPA.

This makes having a secondary gunner absolutely essential I would have thought ...

It also makes the tactics of using the prowler rather interesting, especially given that the tank can't strafe unlike a magrider.

I don't believe we've seen a picture of the new Prowler yet. We saw something blurry in the back of the PCGamer cover and we saw some concept art of a tank in TR colors, although I now believe that was the Lightning.

I don't see how they could balance having a fixed forward gun without the ability to strafe. Strafing is the only reason I'm not freaking out and raising a shitstorm over the Magriders fixed gun. In fact quite the contrary, the fact that it can strafe makes the fixed gun rather appealing to me.

ringring · 2011-11-26, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

I don't believe we've seen a picture of the new Prowler yet. We saw something blurry in the back of the PCGamer cover and we saw some concept art of a tank in TR colors, although I now believe that was the Lightning.

I don't see how they could balance having a fixed forward gun without the ability to strafe. Strafing is the only reason I'm not freaking out and raising a shitstorm over the Magriders fixed gun. In fact quite the contrary, the fact that it can strafe makes the fixed gun rather appealing to me.

Yea, looking at the magazine again it's clearly a piece of concept art (and it does have a descrete gunner turret).
Even so, from my POV if the driver gun is fixed forward it make me more likely to drive it than if the driver gun is in a turret a la lightning.
If driven the existing magrider a bit during the last year and using the driver gun in that is fun although it does help that the mag 'strafes' and the main gun is a useful AV weapon.

Gwartham · 2011-11-26, 04:07 PM

As a Magrider fanatic, I got plenty of kills using the secondary wep while driving full speed, always keeping my maneuverability edge, and was always able to keep the target in my fire while giving my main gunner a good line of fire.

The way it will be currently as described in PS2 will be a huge plus for someone like me

BorisBlade · 2011-11-27, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by FIREk

We've been through this a bazillion times already. We'll see how it works in beta. If it's crap, I'm sure it will be changed.

Wont change, period. Give people boring, simple, easy mode ways to get what is really just a solo player buff and it will stay. If it was like PS1 from the start then that would stay cause people wouldnt know any better and wouldnt complain, as long as they had their lightnings and what not for those who like solo.

Besides, it means the magrider would have to be completely redesigned. Dont see that happening.

Now if they do give the option to let us give the pilot's gun to a second gunner on the other tanks/vehicles, i would be happy. Sadly if its only available on the tr/nc it would def keep me from playin vs.

I want to drive a vehicle. I dont want to drive a lightning with an extra gunner seat. If i have to drive and shoot at the same time i just wont drive. Not exactly excited about gunning for them either cause it means i get a half ass driver who's tryin to shoot someone rather than maneuvering to get us a good shot and avoid enemy fire. Its boring, and solo focused. Seems like a cheap FPS rather than PS. =(

FIREk · 2011-11-27, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

Besides, it means the magrider would have to be completely redesigned. Dont see that happening.

Give the driver a weak-ass gun like PS1's PPA, then redesign the turret to incorporate both a primary and secondary gun. Both turret-mounted guns would be used by the gunner (he would toggle between them). The turret wouldn't have a coax gun as its equivalent would be used by the driver. Problem kinda solved.

Tracked tanks could give the gunners control of both weapons as well, or the secondaries could be used by the driver. I dearly hope that these will get nerfed as soon as they add buggies to do proper AA.

Raka Maru · 2011-11-26, 04:27 PM

Waiting for the Prowler also. Would like to be able to pull it and pick up gunners on the way without being defenseless if no one is there with me. So I do like the design as it is. However, I would like to be able to turn those controls over to my passengers, even the main gun when sharing the tank.

Devs please give us this option.

LZachariah · 2011-11-26, 06:35 PM

I'm surprised that people are still confused about this issue. Higby said, multiple times, without any ambiguity, that the pilot of each vehicle will always have use of the vehicle's primary weapon, and the reason for this is: The pilot is the one who's been buying certifications for the vehicle. Since they are the one who's gone to all the trouble spending experience and resources to give their Magrider +mobility, +speed, and +armor (or whatever), they receive the benefit of being in control of the primary weapon of the vehicle. Additional passengers may be given secondary weapons.

~Zachariah

CutterJohn · 2011-11-26, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by LZachariah

I'm surprised that people are still confused about this issue. Higby said, multiple times, without any ambiguity, that the pilot of each vehicle will always have use of the vehicle's primary weapon, and the reason for this is: The pilot is the one who's been buying certifications for the vehicle. Since they are the one who's gone to all the trouble spending experience and resources to give their Magrider +mobility, +speed, and +armor (or whatever), they receive the benefit of being in control of the primary weapon of the vehicle. Additional passengers may be given secondary weapons.

~Zachariah

Which brings up an interesting question.. I often find a partner in crime, and we will trade off driving/gunning. I'm curious if the bonuses apply to the vehicle, or to the person driving. If the bonuses only go to the person driving, the one with the higher skills will be largely stuck doing that.

Unless its just pulled, and the balance is resource cost, in which case the one person probably couldn't afford to continue pulling the vehicles all the time.

Captain1nsaneo · 2011-11-26, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Which brings up an interesting question.. I often find a partner in crime, and we will trade off driving/gunning. I'm curious if the bonuses apply to the vehicle, or to the person driving. If the bonuses only go to the person driving, the one with the higher skills will be largely stuck doing that.

Unless its just pulled, and the balance is resource cost, in which case the one person probably couldn't afford to continue pulling the vehicles all the time.

I believe that the mods stay with the tank. The only thing that's confirmed to take resources (that I know of) is adding the gunner's turret. Which personally confuses me as that seems to make teamwork cost more than just going solo.

CutterJohn · 2011-11-27, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

I believe that the mods stay with the tank. The only thing that's confirmed to take resources (that I know of) is adding the gunner's turret. Which personally confuses me as that seems to make teamwork cost more than just going solo.

2 people in 2 tanks working together = 2 people in 1 tank working together = teamwork.

Also there are more upgrades to purchase than just the turret. 2 fully upgraded tanks sans turret probably cost more than one with the turret.

SgtMAD · 2011-11-27, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

2 people in 2 tanks working together = 2 people in 1 tank working together = teamwork.

Also there are more upgrades to purchase than just the turret. 2 fully upgraded tanks sans turret probably cost more than one with the turret.

the "teamwork" theory makes me laugh

Azren · 2011-11-28, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by LZachariah

I'm surprised that people are still confused about this issue. Higby said, multiple times, without any ambiguity, that the pilot of each vehicle will always have use of the vehicle's primary weapon, and the reason for this is: The pilot is the one who's been buying certifications for the vehicle. Since they are the one who's gone to all the trouble spending experience and resources to give their Magrider +mobility, +speed, and +armor (or whatever), they receive the benefit of being in control of the primary weapon of the vehicle. Additional passengers may be given secondary weapons.

~Zachariah

That reasoning is BS. It is the player who decides what to spend time on, if he/she decides to spend time to upgrade the gunner's weapon, it is his choice to do so. The vehilce he drives will be more effective that way, so it will be a positive thing for the driver.

There is only one reasoning for this that is actually valid; they want to pull in players from BF series who are used to this kind of driving sheme (who by the way are also used to solo play and don't give a damn about teamplay).