Gameplay: Outfit/Squad Vehicle Hotdrop

LancerNC · 2012-04-19, 01:24 PM

So I have this idea of a vehicle hotdrop that I think would be pretty cool, a squad leader or an outfit leader could have a tank or perhaps another vehicle just drop from the sky to their location on the battlefield for his squad or outfit to use, obviously there would be some constraints (timers, resources, limited to outfit or squad leader with high enough cert points) but I think it would be way cool.

I just imagine two units fighting each other and all of a sudden this huge thing starts falling from the sky and lands with a huge thud while the ground shakes and now the other unit now has a tank. Or one empire easily holding off the infantry of the attacking empire when all of a sudden a tank drops from the sky and the battle suddenly gets a lot more intense, with some cool animations and sound effects I think it could add an awesome element to the battles of ps2.

Here are some Pros and Cons that I have thought of,

Pros:
-encourages squads/outfits to stick together(especially with 2 man tanks)
-adds to squad/outfit tactics
-could look way cool

Cons:
-if done in excess, would players stop spawning vehicles at bases?
-is it worth adding? or easy to add?

anyway that is just an idea that I had, sorry if someone had already posted an idea like this, I looked around but didn't see anything like it, but what are your thoughts? I am sure there are more pros/cons that I have not thought of

Talek Krell · 2012-04-19, 05:20 PM

I'd prefer just adding a vehicle carry module to the Galaxy so that it could bring tanks to the front-lines.

Mark Olsen · 2012-04-19, 07:31 PM

If you reflect on the logistic trends of planetside 1, it took a Galaxy to transport a Lightning and a Lodestar to carry a tank. Hart shuttles could drop MAXes and Lodestars could airdrop vehicles on flat surfaces at low altitude.

From a strategic perspective, who wouldn’t want to have an army of tanks falling down behind enemy lines instead of paratroopers?
But having vehicles delivered spontaneous from the air of all sizes, would render the Lodestar and all other delivery systems useless.
Of course there would be limitations in cool down, certifications and resource cost. But it would have no strategic counter just like the hart shuttle.

I’m not saying planetside 2 should be based on military history.
But if you reflect on military history during World War 2 allied troops delivered M22 Locust and Mk VII Tetrarch using gliders towed behind bombers. The gliders were fragile, difficult to land and couldn’t be reused.

The M551 Sheridan was deployed in Vietnam being small and light enough to be dropped by parachute. This strategy was discarded because it was dangerous, but was replaced by low altitude dropping just above the ground, where the tank is pulled out the back of a C-130 Hercules by a small parachute and skids along the landing strip on skies.

Today American M1 Abraham's main battle tanks are delivered by C-5 Galaxies which can carry 2 battle ready tanks at a time.

What’s the point of all this information?
It’s to illustrate the logistical challenges of military history and that’s how it already is in planetside 1.
You can either drive the tank to the frontline ensuring the vehicles arrival plowing through the terrain, safely but slowly. Or you can take the fast route, but take the risks of being a much more vulnerable air target. C-5 Galaxies wouldn’t land in dangerous areas due to their vulnerability just like you wouldn’t land your Lodestar right on top of the enemy.

Another thing is if players remotely on the field could order vehicles, all infantry transport and logistics would become obsolete. It would become pointless to setup anti aircraft artillery, air patrol with fighters or ambushes along the main supply routes. Because if anyone, anywhere got past this in the air, on foot or as a infiltrator they could drop an army of heavy vehicles in behind your lines and take you when you’re most vulnerable defending the perimeter.

Purple · 2012-04-19, 07:47 PM

do you mean an airdrop or something like starcraft 2 mercs?

LancerNC · 2012-04-19, 09:14 PM

I have never played starcraft 2, so I don't know, what I am thinking is pretty much you have a tank drop on your location, so airdrop is probably a better term then

the point would be to make a quick tactical move by instantly being able to bring in a tank, as opposed to returning to your nearest base and driving it to the battle, if there were timers, resource costs, and certification requirements it would not make the lodestar or galaxy obsolete, since it would cost significantly more and could theoretically only be used once every three hours, furthermore the lodestars role was not only that of transport but also vehicle repair and since there are less time restrictions on the lodestar it would still be used considerably in battle.

it doesn't render all other delivery systems useless, because galaxies,lodestars, hart(which probably wont be in ps2),planes, etc... have no time restraints and they transport maxes, infantry, and vehicles while the air drop would be for a single vehicle

well considering in ps1 soldiers can drop from hundreds of meters in the air and land safely on the ground with not parachute, I think its clear that military history logistics do not define planetside, therefore I don't see how it would be difficult for a whole tank to land in a similar fashion

Mark Olsen · 2012-04-19, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Purple

do you mean an airdrop or something like starcraft 2 mercs?

They drop in anywhere in drop pods, just like the hart shuttle.

Originally Posted by LancerNC

I have never played starcraft 2, so I don't know, what I am thinking is pretty much you have a tank drop on your location, so airdrop is probably a better term then

the point would be to make a quick tactical move by instantly being able to bring in a tank, as opposed to returning to your nearest base and driving it to the battle, if there were timers, resource costs, and certification requirements it would not make the lodestar or galaxy obsolete, since it would cost significantly more and could theoretically only be used once every three hours, furthermore the lodestars role was not only that of transport but also vehicle repair and since there are less time restrictions on the lodestar it would still be used considerably in battle.

it doesn't render all other delivery systems useless, because galaxies,lodestars, hart(which probably wont be in ps2),planes, etc... have no time restraints and they transport maxes, infantry, and vehicles while the air drop would be for a single vehicle

well considering in ps1 soldiers can drop from hundreds of meters in the air and land safely on the ground with not parachute, I think its clear that military history logistics do not define planetside, therefore I don't see how it would be difficult for a whole tank to land in a similar fashion

About making other transport methods obsolete, it was an unfinished thought. What I meant was whenever anyone needed to get anywhere they just ordered in an ATV in a drop pod. Instead of relying on teammates to provide transportation everyone would just order in ATV’s all day long to get around and if you were a squad you would just order in a Sunderer.

I don’t think Hart will be in either.

But the Hart didn’t allow you to bring tanks, the way I perceived planetsides 1’s view on drop pods is that maxes are the heaviest things that could be delivered in a drop pod.

As far as I remember the Lodestar had to drop the vehicles at a low altitude. rendering the Lodestar vulnerable, so that the vehicle would survive, unlike the Galaxies that could drop infantry from whatever height they felt like. That’s where I saw the link to the Sheridan with the Lodestar, and paratroopers to the Galaxy.

Talek Krell · 2012-04-20, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Olsen

As far as I remember the Lodestar had to drop the vehicles at a low altitude. rendering the Lodestar vulnerable, so that the vehicle would survive, unlike the Galaxies that could drop infantry from whatever height they felt like.

Provided that they didn't change something before I arrived or after I left Lodestars have always been capable of dropping vehicles from any height. Ultimately though that's probably not very significant in the conversation anyway.

I would point out that the Sundy is currently the repair station. The Lodestar no longer exists, which was why I suggested that vehicle carry be a Galaxy module.

SteinB · 2012-04-20, 10:46 AM

Lodestars can indeed drop vehicles from any height.

I'm not a fan of this hot drop method, sure it's cool and convenient, but that doesn't make for a good game mechanic. Games are about making decisions with benefits and consequences. Getting heavy vehicles to the front should be a task to do not just a button press.

They are crafting the continents to give them specific feels and foster specific kinds of fights, having the ability to spawn or drop vehicles anywhere conflicts with this design decision.

btw I'm a dedicated Lodey pilot in PS1 so while I'll miss them I understand the decision to not include them for gameplay reasons.

Purple · 2012-04-20, 11:38 AM

part of taking out a tank is knowing that they have to get a new one and drive it back. i would be fine with this idea if they could only drop at V-bays took 5 min to unpack and cost double the standard resource cost.

metziih · 2012-04-20, 11:43 AM

I don't really like the idea of being able to drop vehicles from any height. I'm okay if infantry is being dropped off from no-so-insane-altitude, but tanks? No bloody way. Just how on earth are you suppose to defend whatever-objective you are defending when you have tanks literally raining from the sky?

However, I would still like to be able to transfer vehicles into (or behind) the frontlines, however, there would be a downside to it. The aircraft transporting the vehicle would have to land to unload the vehicle. This would make the aircraft, and the vehicle vulnerable during that landing-unloading phase, and you would have to find* a viable LZ for your drop-off-operation.

*If some bigger outfits were doing it, then I'd imagine that they would send some aircraft(s) and/or infantry to locate and secure a decent LZ before committing to "air-tank-cavarly".