Improvement: Skill system - losing proficiency

Immigrant · 2012-05-14, 09:13 AM

I was wander about how will the skill training system work (by this I mean gaining more proficiency due to more use of certain weapon or vehicles etc). I think that some kind of loss due to inactivity would keep the player more equal and at edge with one another and also it would be realistic.

If we presume that proficiencies will be in percentages from 0-100 max then it should work this way. Also system = weapon, vehicle, aircraft, medkit etc.

1. Everyone should start at zero and it should increase with prolonged use of system in reverse exponential manner.

2. There should be a threshold at like 50 -60 % which once achieved you couldn't go under again due to not using that system.

3. From 50 % onwards there should be some kind of proficiency loss when certain system is not used at all or severely neglected. Maybe it could be linear loss or in same exponential manner it was attained.

4. You could be able to your proficiency values of system important to you as high as 80 maybe 90 % by using passive training feature that will be implemented. Of course you could maintain only several essential skill high enough this way what would allow casual players to maintain high level of proficiencies for desired systems and play styles.

5. Maintaining proficiency level above before mentioned level would require frequent use of that system to keep it as high as possible.

I think this system would make game more competitive and that players should always be practicing use to maintain top levels off proficiency so they couldn't relax after they max out a certain weapon proficiency (simple use it or lose it rule) yet it would be lenient enough to allow casual player not suffer due to it greatly.

What do you think?

Goku · 2012-05-14, 09:21 AM

I don't see what this would help nor do I want to be forced to use a weapon to maintain its current level. Reminds me of people wanting to make it so you stay CR5 you need X amount of CEP per week or you will no longer have it. Bad idea IMO.

Immigrant · 2012-05-14, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Goku

I don't see what this would help nor do I want to be forced to use a weapon to maintain its current level. Reminds me of people wanting to make it so you stay CR5 you need X amount of CEP per week or you will no longer have it. Bad idea IMO.

Ok, you're entitled to your opinion however I don't think it equal to that idea with CR5 and CEP per week since this wouldn't force anyone to use certain system X times per week successfully - you could simply passively train it too to maintain it high. But I find the idea that once you attain 100% you have it that way permanently for the rest of the game even if you don't use that system for months or even years even worse. This would help bridge the gap between the newbs and vets imo since even vets couldn't keep everything maxed out at once.

Purple · 2012-05-14, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Goku

I don't see what this would help nor do I want to be forced to use a weapon to maintain its current level. Reminds me of people wanting to make it so you stay CR5 you need X amount of CEP per week or you will no longer have it. Bad idea IMO.

Right, the last thing we need is people loosing their OS it seems like no one has them any more in PS1. lol.

Goku · 2012-05-14, 09:57 AM

I don't like the idea of being forced to use a certain type of class/weapon due to wanting to keep it at its best level. This is a FPS. No one is going to want that.

Immigrant · 2012-05-14, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Goku

I don't like the idea of being forced to use a certain type of class/weapon due to wanting to keep it at its best level. This is a FPS. No one is going to want that.

Why would you wan to keep a weapon/system (not class, these could span across classes we'll see how they'll be done) you seldom use at 100% proficiency in FPS anyway if we disregard possible OCD ("gotta catch 'em all") urges?

Anyway all proficiencies and modifications combined couldn't get your weapon better in any aspect more than 20% from the basic level. So that would mean that your weapon would be let's say if half goes to proficiency 10 % times 20 % (50% - without passive training) decrease for not using it for few months equals 2 (5 %) weaker that same weapon of the guy who uses is on daily basis. I don't see that number being really relevant to your combat performance... however it would give the feel that the guy who use it the most have it at highest levels and also give you a feeling of a sort of a very plastic specialization system since most would have only dozen of system proficiencies maxed out fully.

Korvin · 2012-05-14, 11:49 AM

I don't want anyone to tell me how to play. I play what I want, when I want and how I want. I also do want to be useful for outfit, so , let's say if I only like air-to-air combats, I will still have some certs for MAX ready. That doesn't mean I enjoy playing as MAX. So the system you suggest will just kill gameplay for me.

The thing I like about Eve Online skill system is that it's simple, open(you know what it takes you to learn that skill, and you can plan them as well), and rewarding despite the fact you suck in game.

Immigrant · 2012-05-14, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Korvin

I don't want anyone to tell me how to play. I play what I want, when I want and how I want. I also do want to be useful for outfit, so , let's say if I only like air-to-air combats, I will still have some certs for MAX ready. That doesn't mean I enjoy playing as MAX. So the system you suggest will just kill gameplay for me.

The thing I like about Eve Online skill system is that it's simple, open(you know what it takes you to learn that skill, and you can plan them as well), and rewarding despite the fact you suck in game.

No one will tell you how play.

I think you guys don't understand the figures I'm talking about here. If Higs said 20% difference between seasoned vets and newbs will be negligible then how 2-5% could possibly be? This more of allows for people to recognize what is your gamestyle and what systems you use to most currently (recently) from glancing at your proficiencies.

Originally Posted by Zekeen

I stopped playing games due to losing proficiency, "I've already lost too much anyways, might as well stop".

A player friendly game lets you pick up where you left off, not punish you for going to grandma's funeral in another state. I mean, of all things to be punished for, we don't even really have a punishment for death, so instead we get punished for a vacation?

Come on man, you know that's just not right for 99% of the players out there.

We're not talking RPG-style proficiencies here which can have significant impact on your game performance, these are more cosmetic. This isn't meant as a "punishment" for not playing the game for a week or two and it won't be (I personally can have 2-3 months pauses from gaming usually), simply not to allow people permanently max out one proficiency and that's about it. This could actually make people want to use other "weaker" weapon types too more often. Anyway it's not that important if this is there or isn't but I can't see from any angle I look at it how it could ruin the game for someone or restrict him to playing only certain way.

Zekeen · 2012-05-14, 12:00 PM

I stopped playing games due to losing proficiency, "I've already lost too much anyways, might as well stop".

A player friendly game lets you pick up where you left off, not punish you for going to grandma's funeral in another state. I mean, of all things to be punished for, we don't even really have a punishment for death, so instead we get punished for a vacation?

Come on man, you know that's just not right for 99% of the players out there.

But, don't worry Immigrant, if you think about it, a player can get 24 hours of experience by just logging in and setting up their skills. So if someone DOESN'T log in, they lose "technical" exp that they could be earning. Which I think is better.

Korvin · 2012-05-14, 12:31 PM

So, again, what does it really improve in a gameplay itself? I think every upgrade to a current ingame system should have a positive effect on gameplay. I have no idea how do you achieve that.

Immigrant · 2012-05-14, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Korvin

So, again, what does it really improve in a gameplay itself? I think every upgrade to a current ingame system should have a positive effect on gameplay. I have no idea how do you achieve that.

In gameplay terms it doesn't add or take anything and it isn't a gameplay improvement (gameplay should be gamer-skill based only as devs said over and over again). It makes skill proficiency system more dynamic though and could make players want to use different systems to keep them as high more often, it would also give you a very plastic way to "specialize" yourself and then as easily change that specialization simply by playing differently. By your reasoning you could ditch the whole proficiency system altogether since it doesn't improve actual gameplay significantly itself - it's there mostly to give you a feel of progression and keeps track on your weapon use to be honest and keep you going, my idea would keep that concept up-to-date simply (since it would reflect your recent gameplay and passive training choices). What personal progression goals you would have once you max everything out? adding a proficiency loss would never allow you to max everything out so you'll always have some changing goal- first you may want to be great infantry guy (by this I mean maxed out on paper in relevant proficiency for that army branch) (first six months i.e.), next tankist (next six months i.e.), then pilot (next year) then infantryman again (after 2 years) etc, you would always have something available for you to max out that way even after years of play.

Kipper · 2012-05-14, 02:03 PM

This isn't Everquest and dice rolling. This is FPS. How good your toon is at using a gun directly translates with how good you are at using a mouse.

Since the guns and vehicles will all handle slightly differently, you can expect to get generally better at everything just by playing Planetside 2, and if you spend some time learning all about how to get the best from a certain class/weapon/vehicle/item, you can expect to be better with it than someone else who didn't.

Baneblade · 2012-05-14, 02:12 PM

Rather than an arbitrary reduction over time, have a skill cap that once you hit it, you have to reduce other skills to increase another one. That way you can either design your character around the cap to be a specialist... or be the jack of all trades, master of none.

I dunno, I still think a hybrid of the PS1 cert system and SWG's skill trees are the penultimate character development.

Hypevosa · 2012-05-15, 02:36 AM

Creates an even larger ability gap between players and encourages those who've lost so much to just quit. They explicitly stated they want people to perform more based on skill and not just time invested, and that's why the certs accumulate over time while you're away - it would be stupid to create a system that does the exact opposite of that.

Immigrant · 2012-05-15, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

Creates an even larger ability gap between players and encourages those who've lost so much to just quit.

How exactly? Explain. I believe this comes to psychology - everytime you mention "penalty" or "loss" people get scared and jump to conclusion that simply aren't true without much reading. First and foremost this is not a RPG as someone above said - so there'll be no significant game determined ability gap (If you're good at fps you're good, if bad you're bad, all the max out proficiencies and unlocked certs and sidegrades won't help you).

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

They explicitly stated they want people to perform more based on skill and not just time invested, and that's why the certs accumulate over time while you're away - it would be stupid to create a system that does the exact opposite of that.

That's false (bald) - first we're talking about system proficiencies not certs which won't surely accumulate while you're away. Secondly I don't believe that even certs will accumulate while you're away they'll unlock with your CR however your resources with which you'll buy them will accumulate to the certain point even if you don't play. SP (sys prof) will accumulate only when you play certain weapon. I suggest that if there's loss yo could however passively train few of them while away so you won't necessarily go back to suggested minimum of 50% with all of them even after a year of inactivity.