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View Poll Results: Check all types of air-ground ordanance you'd like to see the option of using
Machine/Chaingun 68 83.95%
Cannon / Heavy MG 66 81.48%
Unguided Iron Bomb 49 60.49%
Unguided Retarded Bomb 46 56.79%
Unguided Cluster Bomb 58 71.60%
Unguided Rockets 66 81.48%
TV/Optically Guided Missile 44 54.32%
Laser Guided Missile (Air or Ground Laser) 54 66.67%
Radar/IR "Fire and Forget" Missile 40 49.38%
Anti-Radar Missile 36 44.44%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-05-21, 09:31 AM   [Ignore Me] #1
Kipper
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Air to Ground Munition Selection


I saw a reference to guided AGM in another thread, figured we hadn't really seen any mention of it and wondered what peoples thoughts were on it.

So, I present to you a selection of air to ground death dealers, which would you like to see implemented - tick all that apply!

Machine/Chaingun: You can fight other aircraft with them, or you can strafe with them, likely to be pretty crappy vs armoured targets but plenty of ammo stores.

Heavy cannon: A meatier gun with a larger, heavier caliber. It has a much shorter range with a higher rate of bullet drop, but will damage armour or take down aircraft more quickly if you get close enough.

Iron bomb: High explosive but unguided, the laws of physics control the descent of the iron bomb which is designed to be dropped from medium/high altitude, it no guidance systems once dropped, but you'll get the benefit of a bomb aiming reticle on the HUD. Hitting anything unless flying pretty much straight and level at a constant speed won't be very easy though.

Retarded bomb: Like an iron bomb but with retardation to slow descent, designed for low/medium altitude attacks, giving the aircraft time to vacate so that it isn't destroyed by its own weapon but putting it at risk because of its low altitude. If dropped from on high, its likely the target will have moved on by the time it lands.

Cluster bomb: A primarily anti infantry weapon that ejects lots of little bomblets over a large area (determined most likely by the launch altitude or a pre-launch setting). Friendly fire casualties are likely if dropped on a battle in progress, but great if there's a bunch of enemy infantry massing somewhere for an attack. Maybe the option to add in a few mines too?

Dumb-fire Rockets: You aim them at a target, you fire them, and they fly straight and true directly from the aircraft to the target with a resultant explosion. Whether you kill anything or not depends on how well you aimed, and whether what you aimed at moved out the way. No guidance systems allow this rocket to pack more warhead, cheap to buy.

Wire/TV guided: A wire or optically guided missile. They can change direction in flight, but the pilot or gunner controls them directly, otherwise they act like a dumb rocket and just fly straight. Likely to be of more use over a longer distance given the speeds involved. Lower yield because of guidance systems, more expensive than a rocket but cheaper than a more elaborately guided missile.

Laser guided: The first lockable ordnance on offer, but you must maintain the lock - you need to either have a clear line of sight to target and keep a lock until impact, or you need a ground unit to be painting it with a laser designator. If at any time during the missile's flight the lock is lost, it reverts to dumb-fire (but will attempt to correct if you can re-acquire and there is time to adjust). Good chance of hitting, but more expensive, and you can carry less before needing to go back to base to re-arm.

Fire & Forget - Radar/IR guided: The creme de la creme of missile technology, you acquire a lock with the missile and fire, and it tracks and adjusts automatically, as soon as you launch, you can turn away or go find a new target. The only way this is going to miss is if its launched too close to the target, shot down by defensive guns/missiles, distracted by appropriate countermeasures or blocked by another object (which it will duly slam into). Again, very expensive to obtain and few can be carried on an aircraft so re-arming often is key.

Anti-Radar: A defensive guided missile that locks onto the source of radar emissions, can be evaded by er.. turning off the source of radar emissions. Used as anti SAM. Obviously can't track the source of a heat seeking missile or flak gun, etc. Medium cost, more of a deterrent unless the target is stupid enough not to break his radar lock....

Last edited by Kipper; 2012-05-21 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 2012-05-21, 11:10 AM   [Ignore Me] #2
Stardouser
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


I voted for all but radar/fire and forget missiles. Air to ground missiles would not be radar, and air to ground should not be fire and forget. Well, let me clarify: If you are firing a missile at a laser designated target, it should be fire and forget as far as the pilot is concerned, but the infantry on the ground doing the lasing should have to keep his laser on target. Aircraft should not have any lock-on air to ground weapons except those which require laser designation by a teammate. Exception: Anti-radar lock on missiles are OK, as they are ONLY going to work against ground targets that have anti-air radar(though, do we even know if the game is going to have true "radar"?)

And that's another thing: Laser designation should be similar to how it is in real life, NOT how BF3's SOFLAM is. It should work like this: You point a laser at the target, and a friendly launches the missile or bomb, and it goes to exactly where you point the laser, whether that's a tank or whether that's into an open window in the enemy base. If you move the laser before the missile hits, the missile will try to change course to where you moved it. And if you die before the missile hits, well, it might never hit the right target.

Last edited by Stardouser; 2012-05-21 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 2012-05-21, 11:39 AM   [Ignore Me] #3
Figment
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


Before I vote, I'd like to know if you mean as alternatives in one aircraft?


Heh.
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Old 2012-05-21, 12:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #4
Kipper
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


Originally Posted by Figment View Post
Before I vote, I'd like to know if you mean as alternatives in one aircraft?
I mean just available at all ... what can launch them and in what quantities very much dependent on the role of the aircraft (i'd like to see a one-man aircraft launch a TV guided missile and direct it without crashing his plane tbh!)

The basic question is - how smart is too smart for a planetside A/G weapon?
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Old 2012-05-21, 12:20 PM   [Ignore Me] #5
ringring
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


I voted for everything, simply because all would be fun if there were proper balance.

How to get proper balance, no idea!

Remember, galaxies will be the spawn point, hopefully the main spawn point and if they are too easily destroyed then balance is doubtful.
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Old 2012-05-21, 12:32 PM   [Ignore Me] #6
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


I think the dumb bombs would work best on the ES fighters myself; but you don't get to keep so many of them.

Either a full AA loadout with guns and AA missiles, or a choice of bomber roles, in all cases i'd be tempted to still give two 'wingtip' AA missiles for defence, but then either rocket pods, dumb bombs, or guided bombs, or a mixture. As a general rule of thumb, the dumber the missile, the more of it you can carry - so rocket pods with 30 rocklets in each one say, as opposed to 2 or 3 guided missiles.

I think what started me thinking was in the TB video, the mosquito clearly has wing pylons like todays aircraft, so it stands to reason you should be able to customise the loadout like 1990's flight sim... those were the best

Last edited by Kipper; 2012-05-21 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 2012-05-21, 11:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #7
Knocky
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


If I cant have napalm, I suppose I will have to make due with cluster bombs.
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Old 2012-05-21, 11:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #8
Rbstr
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


I like the idea of bombs existing for the light craft. They should be simple dumb-fire things and have a decent bomb drop-prediction reticle thingy. Aim for a sort of dive-bomb kind of thing.

I've always thought that the Reaver should have some kind of heavy railgun/cannon type of thing instead of rockets for anti-armor shooting. Perhaps even charge-fire Lancer style.

Keep things dumbfire, except, perhaps, some kind of designation from in-squad infantry. SOFLAM-esque works for me. Making it a pin-point laser thing is too nitpicky. Make it a hand held tool. Infantry points at vehicle, aircraft sees box, locks on, launches, infantry has to maintain point until the missile hits or else it goes dumb-fire and continues in a straight line.
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Old 2012-05-21, 11:58 AM   [Ignore Me] #9
Stardouser
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


Originally Posted by Rbstr View Post
I like the idea of bombs existing for the light craft. They should be simple dumb-fire things and have a decent bomb drop-prediction reticle thingy. Aim for a sort of dive-bomb kind of thing.

I've always thought that the Reaver should have some kind of heavy railgun/cannon type of thing instead of rockets for anti-armor shooting. Perhaps even charge-fire Lancer style.

Keep things dumbfire, except, perhaps, some kind of designation from in-squad infantry. SOFLAM-esque works for me. Making it a pin-point laser thing is too nitpicky. Make it a hand held tool. Infantry points at vehicle, aircraft sees box, locks on, launches, infantry has to maintain point until the missile hits or else it goes dumb-fire and continues in a straight line.
It's not nitpicking, it's utility. Battlefailed 3's SOFLAM only locks onto vehicles, and cannot therefore be used for anything else. It needs to work like real lasing so that it can be used to blast snipers out of their holes and other various uses.
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Old 2012-05-21, 12:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #10
Figment
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


I prefer two men aircraft over single crews IF they get any type of smart or high damage weaponry, tbh.

Or perhaps three. (Lib).
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Old 2012-05-21, 01:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #11
Satexios
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection




All I need is that ^
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Old 2012-05-21, 01:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #12
Stardouser
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


Every time I watch Star Trek I always want to beam a bomb into the enemy ship with the transporter, there's a weapon!

Also, cloaked cruise missiles.
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Old 2012-05-21, 02:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #13
Figment
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


Bears with parachutes fired from big artillery cannons.
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Old 2012-05-21, 03:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #14
Stardouser
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


I think we're not going to think of any more fun weapon types.

However, if we ever had FTL in an MMO and an appropriate physics engine, pointing your ship at something, turning the safety off and engaging the hyperdrive to initiate a light-speed ram would make for a very interesting result.
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Old 2012-05-21, 03:16 PM   [Ignore Me] #15
captainkapautz
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Re: Air to Ground Munition Selection


Originally Posted by Stardouser View Post
I think we're not going to think of any more fun weapon types.

However, if we ever had FTL in an MMO and an appropriate physics engine, pointing your ship at something, turning the safety off and engaging the hyperdrive to initiate a light-speed ram would make for a very interesting result.
Meh, still just a big, fast dumbfire rocket.

P.S.: Please don't misunderstand me, my 1st post was just as a reaction to the "herp to much modern weaponz needs future derp" arguement, which imo just didn't work for the reason I posted.

Last edited by captainkapautz; 2012-05-21 at 03:19 PM.
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