Empire night flares

Cuross · 2012-06-04, 08:18 AM

So if I'm reading correctly, there's going to be night vision goggles available for infantry, so maybe a flare gun or grenade ammo that shoots an 'infrared' beacon that illuminates the night so long as the soldiers are wearing their night vision goggles, maybe in the color of their Empires, but basically this would just give the soldiers a different light source. Not sure how it would be put into the game, but with what I've seen of the lighting, it would be amazing to see something like this, haha. Maybe even outfit an aircraft with a bunch of these flares to light up a night battle for the ground troops.

Pro:
Wider area of lighting
Squad/platoon/outfit/Empire support

Con:
Not sure I can think of any, haha.

Potential issues:
Well, I'm not sure how it would work, I'm not certain if it would be hard on the servers or processors involved. I also wonder what would happen should a hundred or so be launched in the same area of effect.

Exploits:
Well, providing a different angle of light exploits the darkness and illuminates areas behind boulders and buildings for anyone else with a different line of sight :P

I'm not sure this even has to stop with infrared flares, even just normal flares would be a fun mechanic for those soldiers without night vision goggles.

Here's a link to a real live IR flare
http://homemadedefense.blogspot.kr/2...2-40mm-ir.html

Landtank · 2012-06-04, 09:02 AM

I definitely agree with you in that flares should be added to the game, whether or not aircraft should deploy or CR5's should deploy them I can't say haha.

If they could be implemented in a way in which they couldn't be spammed then it would be fantastic, and add that extra element to night fighting.

IHateMMOs · 2012-06-04, 09:24 AM

I would really love a handheld flare pistol with faction specific colors, so that you can shoot it up and call for reinforcements, or signal them, but I can tell how annoyingly blinding it would be when everyone's just shooting flares into the sky for no reason.

Cuross · 2012-06-04, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by IHateMMOs

I would really love a handheld flare pistol with faction specific colors, so that you can shoot it up and call for reinforcements, or signal them, but I can tell how annoyingly blinding it would be when everyone's just shooting flares into the sky for no reason.

Ah, you're talking about signal flares. Well, for that I've got another idea, perhaps a deployable signal beacon that takes a few moments to deploy but otherwise creates a waypoint similar to those set by the leadership positions in PS1.

However, the idea of blinding everyone on the battlefield with a few dozen really bright flares is my biggest concern. I'm thinking that maybe the collective lights from multiple flares doesn't exceed daytime settings? This way we can avoid them being rank specific. Not to mention, a flare would last perhaps on the upwards of 30 seconds? A minute maybe with sidegrades?

PlaceboCyanide · 2012-06-04, 10:23 AM

Would be a nice utility to have. If they do implement anything of the sort I hope they make the flares themselves sticky. To prevent a massive barrage of flares (why is that such a bad thing?) you could have the carrying capacity for them be very low. Only 1-3 per person if they decide to carry them in place of something else.

Cuross · 2012-06-04, 10:51 AM

I don't actually think that there is any problem with a massive barrage of flares, but there comes a point where too many flares might become a hindrance to the game rather than a boon. I mean, imagine a squad or platoon of infiltrators all behind the walls of a base and all of them launch their flares at once before the big rush by their team. All the defenders would be blind and helpless outdoors just in time to be siege'd on by lightnings, main battle tanks, and liberators. But that opens the issue of the blinding effect, that is probably the only part of light flares to become an exploit and a con.

On the note of IR flares, it would be hazardous to the soldiers of their Empire all wearing night vision goggles or implants, and no one likes that kind of trolling. So this is why I might suggest a maximum light amount from cumulative flares being as bright as daylight. This way, a platoon can fire off a bunch of flares at all angles around a base and create "daylight" for a few short minutes so that the tanks and snipers can line up quick shots. And the IR flares? Imagine a night skirmish happening between two bases, no lights, moderate cover, and a couple guys fire off a couple IR flares. All of a sudden the entire battlefield is lit up providing more illumination than normal night vision can offer. I rather like it

And I am fully expecting them to be at least as wieldy as normal grenades (there still will be grenade launchers, right?). Don't get me wrong, I think it would also be a good idea to create a flare gun to take up a pistol slot so that anyone without access to grenade launchers could still use them, but I'm just expecting them to be a grenade for ammunition purposes.

And if they were sticky, that would offer a different kind of mechanic that, while amusing, would defeat most of the purpose of firing flares in the first place. When you fire a flare close to the ground or stick it to a wall, you're limiting the maximum amount of light emitted to certain areas. This does, however, have a pro to it, that being that you can fire it to the ceiling underneath cover that would be otherwise shaded from a launched flare, still illuminating the area. But that's where darklight or normal night vision shines best anyway. Perhaps we could compromise and make different modes of light for flashlights?! Press the toggle once for normal light, press it again for IR?

PlaceboCyanide · 2012-06-04, 11:41 AM

I very much like the toggling flashlight idea, especially for stealthers. Speaking of stealth, how would that work with the flares... could it be a mechanic to help detect cloaked enemies? Maybe not to reveal them 100% but enough to make them known. Would be hilarious if you could land a sticky flare onto a cloaker

Cuross · 2012-06-04, 08:18 PM

I don't actually expect IR flares to do anything to cloakers because that is such an integral part of an infiltrator's class. Not to say that every infiltrator will be building around their cloaking ability, but it separates them from the rest.

Not to mention that the IR flares would be Empire specific anyway, giving you no real need to find your friendly infiltrators outside the minimap. But if we are talking about visible light flares then I stand by my earlier statement.

And it would be amusing to see someone stick a visible light flare to an enemy cloaker, haha. It'd be like a ghost running around with a torch :P Up until it got shot at, haha.

And this is actually getting less attention than I thought it would. I thought that this kind of idea would have been one of those utility things that more people would have had an opinion about, lol.

Talek Krell · 2012-06-05, 06:13 PM

The devs have mentioned the idea at a couple of points. Some sort of weapon attachment, I think, that you could use to light up the night a bit. Will be sweet if it's in.

Zekeen · 2012-06-05, 08:31 PM

I think the idea of a night vision flare is a good idea. It would have to be physically visible, but much much MUCH brighter from NV. Very good concept to that. An interesting take on flares.

Raka Maru · 2012-06-11, 02:51 AM

I can see why you would want faction specific IR rather than normal flares because of dummies in your empire giving away your position. It would light up the nights in an eerie way. Just another light source drifting to earth.

Why not just give us all varieties?

Flare gun pistol: overhead parachute style
Grenade ammo: to light up distant corners
Tossable: other than flash bang.

I've seen some wondering about blinding varieties. I would be ok with that non-IR version. The feeling of helplessness should not last more than a few seconds and can be countered by special goggles if slotted. The whole room can be cleared out if no one has these goggles. Would add a whole new gameplay, I wonder how it would work out...

Lanka · 2012-06-11, 07:52 PM

To be fair I think faction specific flares should still be barely visible to other factions so they know why they were spotted. Just to reduce the "omg lol haxs" crying that it'll cause. Also experienced players would know to wait for the flare to die before moving in over open areas.

If given to infantry, I'd rather make them SL/Commander cert than giving everyone bunch of shiny things. Or maybe they could work as utility sidegrade for Galaxy/Sunderer?

Grenade replacement as signal flare? That'd be interesting. Could toss together color smoke&flare into one to make it viable option both night&day. Enough smoke&'flame' that it can be seen from sky for calling in Liberators or Galaxies..

Cuross · 2012-06-12, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by Lanka

To be fair I think faction specific flares should still be barely visible to other factions so they know why they were spotted. Just to reduce the "omg lol haxs" crying that it'll cause. Also experienced players would know to wait for the flare to die before moving in over open areas.

If given to infantry, I'd rather make them SL/Commander cert than giving everyone bunch of shiny things. Or maybe they could work as utility sidegrade for Galaxy/Sunderer?

Grenade replacement as signal flare? That'd be interesting. Could toss together color smoke&flare into one to make it viable option both night&day. Enough smoke&'flame' that it can be seen from sky for calling in Liberators or Galaxies..

Yeah, someone had already mentioned the flare being visible, but I'm on the fence about letting the enemy faction get even a small portion of the flare's benefit. I had the idea of the IR flare strobing while it was in the air, so that even though the enemy factions don't gain even a small amount of benefit from the flare, they can still see it in the air and know that the enemy launched one.

But maybe if the enemy factions did get a small benefit, it still fits in as fluff. There is only so much of the light spectrum that can be utilized, I'm sure that there would be some overlap between the three factions choices.

Saifoda · 2012-06-12, 08:48 AM

Make it simple: Parachute style flare (video example to follow), burn/hang time ~30 seconds, lights up the immediate area (and for game purposes include dynamic shadows). Everybody should be able to see the thing; unfair advantage of you can light up the whole field with several guys popping flares and your guys get all the advantages of it and the enemy is just sol. If you don't want the enemy spotting you, don't shoot it over your heads -- shoot it over theirs!

Cuross · 2012-06-12, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Make it simple: Parachute style flare (video example to follow), burn/hang time ~30 seconds, lights up the immediate area (and for game purposes include dynamic shadows). Everybody should be able to see the thing; unfair advantage of you can light up the whole field with several guys popping flares and your guys get all the advantages of it and the enemy is just sol. If you don't want the enemy spotting you, don't shoot it over your heads -- shoot it over theirs!

I know where you're coming from for this, but if this kind of thing gets implemented into the Beta, I would like to see it tested between faction specific IR flares and all around IR flares. I imagine that night fights will be chaotic, and anyone certing high enough to get IR flares would definitely benefit their faction greatly. I can also see a counter to an IR flare, someone sees a strobe light in the sky saying that there's an IR flare up, the enemy launches a normal light flare to basically nullify much of the benefits, since nightvision and visible light don't mix well :P

In the end, you did bring up a valid point of giving one team all the advantage and leaving the other scrambling for cover, but I would like to see how the metagame for this plays out if it was given a chance