Vehicles are far too SQUISHY!

Dart · 2012-06-07, 10:07 PM

Had a lot of fun watching the streams during the last few days and I'm as excited as the rest of you about the impending beta. However one of my biggest issues with what we saw was just how fragile the vehicles seemed to be. I understand the game is faster paced than PS1 but we saw instances where vehicles were sustaining serious damage from hitting a rock or (as we saw in today's stream) exploding after a collision with a wreck of a previously destroyed vehicle.

Aircraft don't seem to be exempt from this 'imbalance' either. The PS1 version of a Galaxy can take a substantial amount of punishment however it's PS2 equivalent seems to be made of papier-mache! I understand that in the Amp Station the devs wanted to avoid too much vehicle camping (personally I think it's the map which should be altered to prevent this) but nerfing the vehicles - which has many knock-on effects - seems like such a heavy-handed way of dealing with this issue it seems to have created a larger one.

Obviously this is conclusion is drawn from just 6 hours of OBSERVED game-play and we'll only know for sure once we get into beta but the average life cycle of a vehicle in PS2 seems to compare unfavorably to that of a fruit fly!

Taru · 2012-06-07, 10:14 PM

I agree that it looks like the vehicles could use some buffing; but I also remember rocks and trees being the most powerful objects in Planetside 1. Rock > Tank, Branch > Plane.

Dart · 2012-06-07, 10:16 PM

But this was my second point; don't you suspect this was a deliberate 'balancing' issue so that the Amp Station playtest didn't become a good old PS1 "skeet farm"?

In which case my question would be, why not just alter the map rather than nerfing every vehicle in the game?!

Landtank · 2012-06-07, 10:17 PM

Completely agree, especially if people are going to be driving and gunning then environmental damage will need to be toned down, and I'm sure it will be even before beta, then we can iron it out to the perfect balance.

When a tank was actually being used properly it was pretty awesome to behold, there was a Vanguard with the AA secondary turret tearing it up today, shows how powerful the secondary gun is. So the actual tank vs tank combat was good to watch, but I want to see it on a more open field instead of the close quarters we saw at E3.

Zhane · 2012-06-07, 10:23 PM

I'm sure it will be heavily tweaked moving forward. But the aircraft being unable to make a reasonable landing without setting themselves on fire is a problem.

Bags · 2012-06-07, 10:29 PM

Terrain damage couldn't have been intentional. There's no way they intend for a perfect landing to remove half of your life.

I agree that the vehicle vs vehicle damage was way too high, or vehicles were way too weak.

mirwalk · 2012-06-07, 10:40 PM

watching the game there were a lot of parts that were a bit "off". Terrain damage can be explained by wrong values in a physics system and a glitch on the geometry. I remember a few games where I fell to my death from 10 feet where I could easy jump 50 and not die.
As for the damage to the vehicles. The MBTs seemed tough enough unless going against another MBT. The lightnings seemed to squishy by half. Ok versus inf, but a coffin against anything else.

(for the next comment I will reveal my biases. I HATE aircraft in most games)
Aircraft seemed to be taking each other out maybe a little to easily but for the most it seemed ok. However, I was a little alarmed at how much a double burster MAX could unload on some ships and they would still be flying. I makes me a little afraid for inf going forward. I get really tired of being a ground pounder and having near invincible air units bombing the area. Guided missiles will be dodged with afterburner or a quick flare, and ground fire is near worthless. If an AA MAX can't take them out, then you have to get a tank or fly yourself to have a chance.

Now I will admit I saw a few clips with them blowing up mosquitos, I don't know if it was Libs or Gals they were shooting at (to me they looked like reavers) that I see them unload a full clip and half of another and it was surviving. I hope it was just an issue with the AOE damage not working right.

mirwalk · 2012-06-07, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

To quote MrBitters I dont know man when I saw a Lightening rape a MBT that was enough convincing to me that a buff is needed. I also saw a MBT shoot at a max like a half a dozen times before it finally killed the max. So yea the MBT needs some loving.

I only got to see the first day's stream as I am at work when he is streaming so maybe I don't have the best view on things.

As for the MAX attack, I think that again may be an AOE issue, that you aren't getting the proper damage unless you hit spot on. Saw a few where the max was killed in 2-3 shots. But those were more direct. I think 3-4 shots if AOE is working properly.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-08, 01:33 AM

I agree with this. Especially when you scale it up to even more players, shit is just going to die way too fast to make any progress.

I can understand how the TTK is fast when you only have a few squads worth of people to test with, but as you increase the population there's just a lot more damage flying around.

You can't really have a game balanced well for small populations and large populations. Large populations require more durability for vehicles and players to survive the huge amount of damage. But when you take something with a lot of durability and put it in a smaller scale setting it becomes a lot stronger. Happy medium is where it should be.

I would simply say damage needs to be tone down across the board by about 30% and see where that puts things.

Dart · 2012-06-08, 07:55 AM

See my issue is that I'm not sure this is an oversight. I know everyone keeps saying 'this'll be fixed in beta' but that's assuming it wasn't intentional...

I agree with cyco regarding the principles of heavy vehicles providing a sizable advantage to their occupants, due to the required teamwork involved. However watching the stream I can't help but conclude that, certainly in an AMP Station, SOE don't want to see that kind of teamwork comprehensively rewarded or a great deal of spawn camping would ensue!

As I say, I think that is a fault of the AMS Station map in particular which is why I'd rather see that particular map changed, instead of simply nerfing every vehicle.

Oh and for the record, the guy trying to land the Galaxy on flat terrain and taking 50% damage was an SOE tester who was solely flying Galaxies for the entire playtest. Put another way, if he's having difficulty, the 'casual gamer' is going to die... a lot!

Redshift · 2012-06-08, 04:45 AM

The gal needs to be able to take a bit of a beating, but only if it's in troop transport mode, if it's GG it needs to be weaker. Tbh it's prob a good thing if vehicles are a bit weaker than they were in the first one.

Bags · 2012-06-08, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

The gal needs to be able to take a bit of a beating, but only if it's in troop transport mode, if it's GG it needs to be weaker. Tbh it's prob a good thing if vehicles are a bit weaker than they were in the first one.

You call this a bit weaker?

Nasher · 2012-06-08, 04:51 AM

First thing I'll be doing is going full on burster MAX and just sit in some obscure corner. I bet the amount of kills you get on day 1 would be insane :P

Redshift · 2012-06-08, 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

You call this a bit weaker?

didn't see the second or third day streams, but personally i'm not gonna cry too much i only ever used the ATV :P

MyMeatStick · 2012-06-08, 08:13 AM

The terrain does look like it needs a nerf of sorts, I found it uneasy when every aircraft tried to land either blew up or took massive damage even with a rather soft landing.