White House Intelligence Leaks

**Malorn** · 2012-06-12, 01:03 AM

Meh.

Red Beard · 2012-06-12, 01:17 AM

I just think the whole system in the US especially is getting so screwed that it's falling apart. They got rid of double jeopardy now...

Zolan · 2012-06-20, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Red Beard

They got rid of double jeopardy now...

Wait... what?

Are you sure you're not just thinking of cases being tried in both criminal and civil court?

**Malorn** · 2012-06-12, 01:54 AM

Meh.

Natir · 2012-06-12, 12:43 PM

The timing of this is simply amazing. Really only 7 weeks left until congress basically shuts down for election season to swing into full gear. It was obvious a lot of the stuff was leaked for campaign reasons.

Just think about it, republicans have kept bashing Obama for not doing enough on Iran and terrorism, etc. When it comes to Stuxnet, the cat has been out of the bag that we worked with Israel to create/implement it for a long time. This just solidifies those claims. Nevertheless, everyone already knew we were behind it, just like how China was behind the 2003 power outage on the east coast. But now with Flame, our espionage malware, we were behind it as well. After enough malware analysis has been done, it was discovered that Stuxnet, Duqu, and Flame all share parts of the same source code. It was also discovered that for a period of time, Flame and Stuxnet were worked on simultaneously. You really gotta hand it to him though, the laws are lax when it comes to cyber and what constitutes war in relation to arms. Don't get me wrong, there are laws against it, but the hardest one is finding 100% proof that someone did it when they can just claim plausible deniability. Even if something was leaked, it can still be said that those who leaked it were just out to discredit us and we actually didn't do it. It becomes a he said she said crap.

Now, McCain who said there should be an independent firm looking into the leaks is right but that will never happen. He knows they were leaked on purpose for his campaign. Obama is not stupid, he is going to let Eric Holder keep it under his wing for a bit. Notice how it was also said that the leak was someone from Bush's administration? HA! Either way you look at it, it is all for the election in November.

p0intman · 2012-06-12, 02:46 PM

Some secrets are kept for very good reasons. Other secrets are kept to protect people's careers because of wrongdoing.

If you can't tell which kind is worth leaking, you probably aren't going to understand why many of these leaks are incredibly and unspeakably harmful to the security of the USA. Wikileaks was on the right track, mostly, with regards to the whole thing about the journalist being mistaken for an insurgent in iraq and such. Some of these other leaks though... can't be tolerated. At all.

Warborn · 2012-06-12, 03:01 PM

I listen to a pretty liberal American news program (Democracy Now!) regularly and I've heard about all of those things, so I'm not sure why you imagine liberals would turn a blind eye to it. I bet even Rachel Maddow has talked about this stuff.

I don't really understand these leaks. The Politico link implies they were intentionally leaking this stuff in order to boost Obama's cred as a "strong leader"? Why would they leak the targets of their own assassination agenda, then? Or leak the identity of the guy who helped them nab Osama? Wouldn't they think maybe people would be reluctant to rat out terrorists if they couldn't be sure their identity would remain secret? And how would getting a guy locked up for 30 years in Pakistan help Obama get elected, exactly?

Think we need more definitive evidence on this one. It seems like a pretty bizarre thing for someone to intentionally instigate because they figured leaking classified information to the public would make them look like they're tough on terrorism (I guess killing Osama and blowing up a shitload of other Al Qaeda doesn't cut it?)

Originally Posted by Malorn

Ok stage is set, so what this thread now needs is a bunch of non-American left wingers to deflect by talking about conservatives. Go!

You'd prefer if the thread were just a far-right Republican echo chamber?

Red Beard · 2012-06-12, 03:16 PM

Since Congress borrows money from the Federal Reserve, the US gov is subject to the Fed banking cartel. Congress used to issue currency directly interest free. US interests are only aligned with citizen's interests in cases where there is no conflict with the Fed.

If you think US national security's primary aim is to be a proponent of the interests of regular citizens, I would frankly say that's a little naive.

Figment · 2012-06-12, 05:07 PM

Wait... wait wait wait. Back up here. Since when in the last three centuries has intelligence leaked from the White House? :x

Wouldn't that presume there's intelligence in there in the first place? D:

*twitches*

Btw Malorn, I suppose you're still having extreme issues with distinguishing between left and right wing on the political compass?

Though I suppose, everything is "left" from your perspective...

*votes VVD*

*isn't left by a longshot*

EDIT: Legenda:

SP: Socialistische Partij (Socialist Party - part communist)
GL: GroenLinks (GreenLeft - environmentalists)
PvdA: Partij van de Arbeid (Labour Party - Social Democrats)
D66: Democraten 66 (Liberal Democrats)
VVD: Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie (People's party for Freedom and Democracy - Liberals, employers)
CDA: Christen Democratisch Appel (Christian Democrat Union - combination of moderate mainstream religious (Catholics, Protestants, Reformed))
CU: ChristenUnie (Christian Union - various strict protestants: Calvinists, Lutherians, etc)
SGP: Stichtelijk Gereformeerde Partij (Dutch Reformed Party - think bible belt Reformed, though more modest than Tea Party, despite being the most bigotted party in the Netherlands)
PVV: Partij van de Vrijheid (Freedom Party - Wilders' populists party, both extreme left and right when convenient)

Missing:
PvdD: Partij van de Dieren (Animal Party - radical environmentalists), would be left of GL

Red Beard · 2012-06-12, 05:24 PM

What does it matter what part of the box you're in when the authorities don't care about the interests of anyone in the box you put yourselves in?

Figment · 2012-06-12, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Red Beard

What does it matter what part of the box you're in when the authorities don't care about the interests of anyone in the box you put yourselves in?

Maybe they would if they didn't have to listen to lobbyists to sponsor mega-campaigns.

Red Beard · 2012-06-12, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

Maybe they would if they didn't have to listen to lobbyists to sponsor mega-campaigns.

Very true...I'm a big proponent of throwing the TV out the proverbial window in search of MUCH more unbiased and diversified sources.

**Malorn** · 2012-06-12, 08:21 PM

Meh.

Saifoda · 2012-06-21, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

That's because I use the American compass. The correct compass. The only compass that matters. Don't care about the subway map that is euro politics.

Boom.

Europe will collapse pretty soon, and even the "nordic model" won't sustain for long as it doesn't matter what the domestic policies of a given state are, if said state's monetary policies are private control of currency (ECB/FED) issued as interest-bearing loans, it is unsustainable and therefore will either need dynamic changes or will simply fall over onto itself. Fractional Reserve Banking doesn't help either, but it's not really the problem; the problem there is the 9:1 ratio, inter-institutional lending, derivatives and futures markets, and false liquidity in equity (a.k.a. stocks).

Basically if you could take a toilet that flushes real and true progress (human progress) and then give it one of those super-flow tubes or whatever, that's what I mean; the kind that our fat lazy asses need just to accomodate the level of shit we produce from the poisons we ingest.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Zolan

Wait... what?

Are you sure you're not just thinking of cases being tried in both criminal and civil court?

Well I can't speak for the OP to that comment, but I would certainly say that just because you slap two different names to it and alter the type of punishments doesn't make it any less double-jeopardy than otherwise.

Zolan · 2012-06-21, 06:08 PM

Double Jeopardy only applies to subsequent criminal cases w/criminal punishment.

Civil punishment is not by definition criminal punishment, therefore double jeopardy does not apply.

Criminal cases are punitive in that their purpose is retribution and deterrence.

Civil cases are meant to provide restitution (not the same as retribution) to those parties who were wronged.