Concern about base capture mechanics

FuzzyandBlue · 2012-07-22, 02:15 AM

I watched Higby's stream earlier today and had a concern about base capture. Everything we have seen in the footage that we have is that once a base is captured falls fully under the capturing factions control. But within a minute or so someone hacks a terminal and everyone starts fighting over the exact same base.

A concern that I have seen pop up several times is that front lines will never change. Usually this concern centers around footholds, but as I see it bases being instantly open for hacking will lend to never moving front lines than footholds will.

My solution would be to add a temporary lock to a captured base, 30 mins as an example, It would whoever owned the base after the battle to clean up the remnants of the enemy and organize an attack on another base.

I don't know if there is any information about my question but if anyone has any more info I'd love to know.

Yutty · 2012-07-22, 02:21 AM

30 mins seems bit too long. I'd think a 2 min lock would be ok

Rivenshield · 2012-07-22, 02:31 AM

I hadn't even thought of that.

OP raises a salient point. And he has a good idea.

SFJake · 2012-07-22, 03:03 AM

I think it would be wiser to find ways to make it harder instead of just making it literally impossible. Removing possibilities completely isn't an ideal solution in my mind, -if- this is a problem.

p0intman · 2012-07-22, 03:12 AM

keep this in mind: when a base is captured in PS1, it is immediately contestable by anyone who has a valid link to the base. Weather or not they will hold it through the hack or not, however, is entirely decided by the firepower left inside the base. So in theory, all the capturing team would need to do is reassault the capture points and resecure them to clean the base up.

FuzzyandBlue · 2012-07-22, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by p0intman

keep this in mind: when a base is captured in PS1, it is immediately contestable by anyone who has a valid link to the base. Weather or not they will hold it through the hack or not, however, is entirely decided by the firepower left inside the base. So in theory, all the capturing team would need to do is reassault the capture points and resecure them to clean the base up.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there just one hack point and a tower per base in PS1?
Zurvan amp station has 6 hack points, in fact I think every base we have seen since E3 has had 6 points. All one has to do is hack one point and the whole battle will start again.

I never played PS1 myself but have watched several streams and videos. One thing I never saw was a base being contested over and over again. I usually saw the victors regroup and attack. While the losers would fall back to their next base and try to defend or attack a different point.

p0intman · 2012-07-22, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there just one hack point and a tower per base in PS1?
Zurvan amp station has 6 hack points, in fact I think every base we have seen since E3 has had 6 points. All one has to do is hack one point and the whole battle will start again.

I never played PS1 myself but have watched several streams and videos. One thing I never saw was a base being contested over and over again. I usually saw the victors regroup and attack. While the losers would fall back to their next base and try to defend or attack a different point.

Granted, though I'm pretty sure if you resecure just that one point then its fine. You'll have to definitely test that in beta. It affects things I'm concerned about quite a bit.

SpcFarlen · 2012-07-22, 03:36 AM

I dont really think adding a longer timer helps get rid of stagnant front line combat. If capture times are larger it means a larger force is needed to attack and secure. So taking a galaxy, doing a drop behind lines then becomes more limited because their odds of taking a base and repelling attack for 30 minutes becomes much much harder. So in a way that would facilitate frontline combat since there isnt the risk of getting a counter attack from all sides within that time frame.

SgtMAD · 2012-07-22, 03:42 AM

I liked the base capture/defend system I saw,it looked like it was a shitload of fun to play

Sabot · 2012-07-22, 03:42 AM

To me it seems that spawn points in bases are actually pretty far from the other caputure points, so it's just up to whoever owns the base to clean up properly...

MCYRook · 2012-07-22, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

My solution would be to add a temporary lock to a captured base, 30 mins as an example, It would whoever owned the base after the battle to clean up the remnants of the enemy and organize an attack on another base.

The cleaning up has more to do with eliminating spawn points than with the control points. If an empire has just capped/defended a base, that typically means they already hold the majority of the cap points. So what if an opposing empire sits on one CP still and re-hacks it right away - they're not gonna take the base off of that. And if you eliminate their spawns, they won't be able to reinforce.

On the other hand, if CPs were locked for some duration after a battle, but the opponents still have Galaxies and whatnot around, PS1 experience says they WILL still stay and fight there, even if they cannot even hack the base.

So I share the concern that battle flow in PS2 might be somewhat static, but I don't think the issue lies with the bases being contestable at any time. Beta will tell if it really is a problem tho.

Littleman · 2012-07-22, 08:57 AM

Yes, people will simply rehack. If someone is bringing even a modicum of strategic thought to this fight, they'll be pushing beyond the base even during the assault. Adjacent hexes have benefits to captures, remember that. If the hacking team doesn't have adjacent hexes, they should most definitely lose the fight. Slower hack times or slower ticket gain, whatever the adjustment, no adjacent hexes only hurts the hack.

Also, since SOI's will likely deny enemy squad spawning within them and possibly even galaxy/sunderer spawning, capturing the base is a matter of the defense mopping up and making it too difficult to get back to the base to hack any part of it by, again, capturing hexes beyond the base.

Always fight like you're on the offense. Always fight to move forward.

FuzzyandBlue · 2012-07-22, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Littleman

Yes, people will simply rehack. If someone is bringing even a modicum of strategic thought to this fight, they'll be pushing beyond the base even during the assault. Adjacent hexes have benefits to captures, remember that. If the hacking team doesn't have adjacent hexes, they should most definitely lose the fight. Slower hack times or slower ticket gain, whatever the adjustment, no adjacent hexes only hurts the hack.

Also, since SOI's will likely deny enemy squad spawning within them and possibly even galaxy/sunderer spawning, capturing the base is a matter of the defense mopping up and making it too difficult to get back to the base to hack any part of it by, again, capturing hexes beyond the base.

Always fight like you're on the offense. Always fight to move forward.

I agree with what you are saying and hope to see awesome strategies forming around the outlying facilities.

My main concern lies in the fact that not every enemy will be dead when the base gets captured. Some may even be standing by a hack point. They can hack a terminal in a matter of seconds and the whole battle starts again.

The more I think about it this problem may be made even worse by outfit play. If all bases are 6 hack points, a smart outfit will try hold three of them if all three empires are fighting, and four of them if its just two empires. Meaning there may always be an enemy or two by those last cap points.

Does anyone know if we've seen any footage of an outlying facility being contested?

bigcracker · 2012-07-22, 11:11 AM

I agree with OP the Hex should be locked for about 15minutes until it can be captured again. Them places look huge so gives the defending team to clear out squads and galaxies

Kezz · 2012-07-22, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by FuzzyandBlue

My main concern lies in the fact that not every enemy will be dead when the base gets captured. Some may even be standing by a hack point. They can hack a terminal in a matter of seconds and the whole battle starts again.

Only it won't. Start again. Not until that remnant has hacked 4 of the 6 points, and there's a chance of the base, in the fullness of time, flipping again. At least that's how I read it. So if there's one "stay behind", you just need one feller to spawn into your base, and follow them round, resecuring the capture points as the interloper moves on to the next. They don't even need to fight, just not get dead for too long.