Air Wing Formations

Gugabalog · 2012-08-02, 02:14 PM

Though it's possible that it will be impossible to maintain any sort of formation due to lag I was thinking about this.

In WW2 bomber formations were maintained for both navigation and optimal turret gunner coverage. As both the Galaxy and Liberator have secondary gunners for AA defense I was wondering what people had to say about what could be a formation for optimal coverage. (It may be too early to tell due to beta not being up and all.)

Another potential issue lies with customizability and certifications. This would affect a crafts maximum speed and acceleration and make it hard to maintain formation, but this issue could be rectified with standard loadouts for air wing (read: Outfit) operations.

This is a rather management intensive tactic but I was wondering what people had to say.

Tsunami · 2012-08-02, 03:31 PM

Flying V, Staggered V, and the more info given, the more you educate the populace, the less likely your gimicky strat will work.

Volken · 2012-08-02, 03:41 PM

Where's the PS1 glue when we need it.

Solidblock · 2012-08-02, 03:40 PM

I like all these topics you are starting off Guga, I appreciate it. I think the best formations would be a flying V or perhaps a horizontal line formations, not for bombers, but for gunships. I don't think we will need lots of different formations I doubt it'll change results. Simplicity will probably the best in air formations in PS2.

Gugabalog · 2012-08-02, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Solidblock

I like all these topics you are starting off Guga, I appreciate it. I think the best formations would be a flying V or perhaps a horizontal line formations, not for bombers, but for gunships. I don't think we will need lots of different formations I doubt it'll change results. Simplicity will probably the best in air formations in PS2.

Thanks!

Reizod · 2012-08-02, 05:17 PM

Well, air formations may play a small role in PS2. The reason why I think this, it's much different than real world implementation. PS2 aircraft pilots will have to deal with AV weapons/soldiers as well, as turrets and other aircraft.

Also, formations was used and developed for aircraft for defensives purposes that really won't apply to PS2 sci-fi aircraft. Without doing into a very long and tedious explanation of this, I'll just say... a Scythe pilot will have very little trouble trying to get any other aircraft off his six. In the real world, there is no other aircraft like it. So the starts change.

Now, where I DO see formations playing a role in PS2 is for covering/scanning sectors while on approach or patrolling an area, to quickly ID a bogey (unidentified), so your squad knows sooner rather than later if it is a bandit (confirmed hostile) or a bird (friendly) and take the appropriate action.

Oh, and as Solidblock said... good topic though Guga.

Gugabalog · 2012-08-02, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Reizod

Well, air formations may play a small role in PS2. The reason why I think this, it's much different than real world implementation. PS2 aircraft pilots will have to deal with AV weapons/soldiers as well, as turrets and other aircraft.

Also, formations was used and developed for aircraft for defensives purposes that really won't apply to PS2 sci-fi aircraft. Without doing into a very long and tedious explanation of this, I'll just say... a Scythe pilot will have very little trouble trying to get any other aircraft off his six. In the real world, there is no other aircraft like it. So the starts change.

Now, where I DO see formations playing a role in PS2 is for covering/scanning sectors while on approach or patrolling an area, to quickly ID a bogey (unidentified), so your squad knows sooner rather than later if it is a bandit (confirmed hostile) or a bird (friendly) and take the appropriate action.

Oh, and as Solidblock said... good topic though Guga.

Formations obviously wouldn't apply to interceptors, just craft with turrets.

Originally Posted by Serjikal

B17s/B52's used a "box" formation for mutual support:

could be applied in the same perspective to PS2. Have your elements of 4 stacked high vertically and then down horizontally granting more spread out depth/width.

If you go straight horizontal to a target you're relying on your belly/top gunners to take all the demand from bottom/top respectively. By stacking/sliding the formation out, you're giving the side/door gunners a chance to help cover top/bottom.

That is a good idea. I wonder if it could apply to galaxies? (Due to different turret placement and all)

SixShooter · 2012-08-02, 05:40 PM

Good stuff.

It would be really cool seeing Libs flying in formations like these and laying waste to everything in it path with the tailgunners working together to stave off enemy air. It would take a lot of good coordination probably with tail gunners in a separate VOIP channel from the pilots and belly gunners.

Tvayda · 2012-08-02, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Formations obviously wouldn't apply to interceptors, just craft with turrets.

False.

You can have formation with the fighters as well. Fighter formations are not large bulky things like the ones you would find WWII bombers in but small compact pairings or even small groups of fighters meant to engage enemy aircraft to deny them air superiority. They provide defensive and offensive support to each other and those of the ground (as well as other larger aircraft that they may be escorting if thats what their mission is).

The objective of a fighter/interceptor formation is not to stay in formation it is to engage a group or even lone enemy aircraft.

Example: 2 aircraft are flying together for mutual support. They encounter an enemy aircraft, they work together to get on its 6 to blow it out of the sky.

Example 2: Same 2 aircraft encounter 2 enemy aircraft flying relatively close together but not necessarily coordinated . By having a formation, the first 2 aircraft should have the advantage because as an enemy goes after aircraft A, his wingman can get behind enemy #1 and down him, then A and B team up against enemy number 2.

Not perfect examples, I know, but as a military pilot I can assure you that formations do exist for fighter aircraft and now-a-days are used much more than bomber formations. Just sayin.

Serjikal · 2012-08-02, 05:20 PM

B17s/B52's used a "box" formation for mutual support:

could be applied in the same perspective to PS2. Have your elements of 4 stacked high vertically and then down horizontally granting more spread out depth/width.

If you go straight horizontal to a target you're relying on your belly/top gunners to take all the demand from bottom/top respectively. By stacking/sliding the formation out, you're giving the side/door gunners a chance to help cover top/bottom.

Gugabalog · 2012-08-02, 05:42 PM

Thoug hthis is just a rough idea atm. What if there were a v wing of libs to clear out an LZ with a few galaxies in the middle of the v and up above or below the libs?

Tuoweit · 2012-08-02, 05:55 PM

Way back when I was in an Air Cav outfit in PS1 we basically had two formations for Reavers: The "blob", which was very vulnerable to flak but maximised DPS on target as everyone's rocket spam could basically hit the target at roughly the same time, and the "line", a single file attack line that minimized flak exposure (and lock-on AA for that matter) but took longer to make a kill because the rocket spam was delivered serially one Reaver after the other.

I know Reavers aren't multi-seat aircraft, but I thought it might be of interest anyways

SixShooter · 2012-08-02, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Thoug hthis is just a rough idea atm. What if there were a v wing of libs to clear out an LZ with a few galaxies in the middle of the v and up above or below the libs?

That would be pretty cool with the Libs clearing out the LZ for the Gals to come in behind and drop in a platoon of troops.

MrMorton · 2012-08-02, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Though it's possible that it will be impossible to maintain any sort of formation due to lag I was thinking about this.

In WW2 bomber formations were maintained for both navigation and optimal turret gunner coverage. As both the Galaxy and Liberator have secondary gunners for AA defense I was wondering what people had to say about what could be a formation for optimal coverage. (It may be too early to tell due to beta not being up and all.)

Another potential issue lies with customizability and certifications. This would affect a crafts maximum speed and acceleration and make it hard to maintain formation, but this issue could be rectified with standard loadouts for air wing (read: Outfit) operations.

This is a rather management intensive tactic but I was wondering what people had to say.

the use of formations for mass gal/lib forces will probably have some sort of basic formation built around the idea of one leading ship that the others follow, so a basic triangle would naturally form.

However, the aircraft I see most benefiting from a tight formation in the mossie (even though I am vs, I have a crush on the mossie). If you are using your speed to do wide sweeping runby's as a squadron, it will be most efficient to utilize a formation that allows you to focus fire targets down quickly.

The basic formation that I can think of is a ^ shape with the altitude of the aircraft decreasing as they get farther back in the formation.

This would allow every single aircraft to shoot at the same target, air or ground, without risk of collision, as well as see at all times what the lead is doing as to mimic him/her.

The Reaver should be able to utilize this, but will probably need to break off in a battle against mossies, as they cannot escape the mossies after hitting. However against scythes it will probably be best to maintain formation to avoid a turning fight with the scythes and have a better chance of focus firing down the scythe before it can evade the formation's flight path.

The scythe is would be best utilized as a solo dogfighter, using the awesome maneuverability to avoid fire and land strafing shots on aircraft running by (as well as DESTROYING any aircraft foolish enough to get in a turning fight).

At least, that is what I expect/hope to be the case.

RSphil · 2012-08-02, 06:13 PM

should be easy to do. i flew in a few formations while playing Aces High 2. that was on titanic tuesdays aswell with 800 people on the server. just takes time to organize. spec as we had fuel to consider and poss even getting jumped by the enemy while setting up. we had bombers set in formation then i was always in the fighter escort roll. loved it. looks impressive when you see fighter break off from another escort to attack incoming.

i dont see why we couldnt do in planetside. would be easier aswell due to the aircraft being able to hover, you could form up in hover then all get under way at the correct time