Resource system is broken when pushed back to WG.

CutterJohn · 2012-09-09, 11:50 PM

When I first heard about it, I was skeptical. Mainly since, as a self professed vehicle whore from PS1, I was unhappy that the play I preferred was getting a serious nerf in availability.

Right now, we're pushed back to the warpgate pretty much, both the VS and NC deciding we are better/easier opponents than each other. For the privilege of being the punching bag of two empires, we are earning:

+0 auraxium
+0 aircav/lightning resource
+15 tank/lib resource
+40 sundy/gal resource.

So no upgrades for tonight. No more skyguard for the forseeable future. I can pull a tank, but I better make sure it lasts an hour and forty minutes, because that is how long it is going to be before I could afford another one. But hey, I can pull a sundy every 25 minutes.

So basically, from this point, our empire is fighting, for the next couple hours, for no upgrades for the night. We have to make do with 1 tank every 90 minutes, or one lib every 2 hours. We are earning exactly zero towards aircav or lightnings(meaning 3/4 of our AA is gone.. relying on one armed AA MAXs and HA AA). Gals and sunderers we are slightly better on, but the enemy has so many vehicles to our none they last about 30s.

The resource system works fine when the factions each have pretty much the same, but when one empire gets pushed back, it just becomes pointless. You cannot take land with infantry in this game, and you're certainly not earning any auraxium for the upgrades you want/need.

At least in PS1, you could fall back to sanc and grab whatever you needed for free. Here, it is nearly impossible to push out. The only thing we can do is wait for the VS and NC to dissolve the ad hoc truce they had going.

How does this get fixed?

- Reduce resource gains from territory, add a respectable basic rate where you get at least 1 lightning or aircav every 20m, tank every 30, etc.

- implants to greatly reduce/eliminate the price of a single vehicle. You can always get your baby, in other words, but you cannot start spamming some other vehicle.

- Basic, no upgrade vehicles available for free from WG.

- other

what do you think?

MonsterBone · 2012-09-10, 12:56 AM

Try not getting owned.

Syphus · 2012-09-10, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by MonsterBone

Try not getting owned.

^There you go. This isn't a problem with the resource system, this is the punishment for losing.

maradine · 2012-09-10, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Syphus

^There you go. This isn't a problem with the resource system, this is the punishment for losing.

Beta commentary notwithstanding, you don't grow playerbase by punishing losers. This isn't real life - players can go play something else pretty easily and without a lot of mess and paperwork.

The losing faction should be incented to fight their way out, not go somewhere else. I don't know what that incentive should be, and I'm certainly not advocating they should be rewarded for getting pushed into a hole - just that getting pushed into the hole shouldn't be the end of your effective character progression and therefore the end of your night.

edit: unless the philosophy is "if you're not good, you're going to have to pay for AUX." I guess this is one way to do it. Is it the right way? Dunno.

Kipper · 2012-09-10, 06:18 PM

And neither can you reward people for being owned or you take away the incentive to fight and win.

I propose this - if you suck, you lose your background resource gain, but there should be 'loot' for capturing a territory back.

More loot would come from a combination of the less territory you own, and the more the people you took it from own - so if you're pushed right back, you can get a significant insta-boost.

Also, I'd make it so that only people in range of the capture when it goes through get the loot. Incentive to get off your bottom and start taking back land.

nomotog · 2012-09-10, 01:11 AM

The problem seems to be that the two empires aren't attacking each other like they should be. Why is that?

CutterJohn · 2012-09-10, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by nomotog

The problem seems to be that the two empires aren't attacking each other like they should be. Why is that?

Not really. When they add the new maps, and its a 2 way, the same thing will happen if one empire outpopulates another on a continent.

The effect needs to be made more subtle, else its just rich get richer gameplay. We had those in PS1, but the effects were a lot less dramatic. Even if they denied you tech, you could still pull stuff from sanc.

As for why they are pushing, who knows? All it takes is a subtle preference to start it. Maybe people like the landscape in the southeast more, so both VS and NC push on TR. Maybe they prefer fighting the TR over each other.

Tatwi · 2012-09-10, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

The effect needs to be made more subtle, else its just rich get richer gameplay. We had those in PS1, but the effects were a lot less dramatic. Even if they denied you tech, you could still pull stuff from sanc.

Sanc should come back and it should support this game play, so that you may have an obvious disadvantage from not having any land, but at least you can fight properly to get some back.

CutterJohn · 2012-09-10, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

Then add another map, you see how this problem starts fixing itself.

What I like to see is PS2 get up to three maps in beta, then lets see where the bottlnecks are, there will be.. but they may be far more simpler solutions at three maps, then they are at one.

I don't really see how doing well on one map is a solution for being resource starved on another.

Player incentive will be to move to the map that is being held most successfully. Why fight on the continent where you are earning +10 auraxium when you can fight on the continent earning +50?

And it still won't stop the double team, though it will make it harder to naturally occur, since the continent layout won't have as much bearing on preference. It will depend on enemy preference then.. Whoever the most people prefer fighting is gonna have a bad time.

Edit: And now at 1am it is..

+0
+0
+0
+19

You can get a flash every 15 minutes!

cBselfmonkey · 2012-09-10, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Player incentive will be to move to the map that is being held most successfully. Why fight on the continent where you are earning +10 auraxium when you can fight on the continent earning +50?

Well I don't know how its currently working in the Beta but isn't there supposed to be pop caps on continents? If one is earning your faction 50+ Auraxium, or whatever ends up being absurdly high, then its probably got a fairly large amount of players on it. An amount that would probably cap soon after people saw it was raking in a ton of cash.

So people who can't get in will go to other, less populated conts where they'll have an easier time anyway. Or just not play but I'd guess most would rather play then not.

RoninOni · 2012-09-10, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

The meta fix is Esamir. A new map is needed.

^This

Beta is Beta and incomplete game is incomplete.

Congratulations on discovering that though.

qbert2 · 2012-09-10, 03:35 AM

The resource system is also broken because it tends to favor small outfits that consist of friends / people who are more concerned with playing together and aren't concerned with fulfilling a specific role. It does nothing to help promote larger combined arms outfits that have people in groups dedicated to specific roles.

Ipimpnoobs · 2012-09-10, 04:13 AM

when you say broken, it sounds like your expectations are of a completed game. Believe you me, when they say launch and if everything looks like beta today, ima demand the SOE gang be demoted to my understudies as I take on the new roll as DCEO (D=Dictator).

For the first few years, ima run a tight ship and insubordination will cost 10 lashes. I'll be damned if i'm gonna play that kid game higs created. Since he likes to smile allot and loves people, there could be perfect position for him as the new SOE receptionist. We won't have to worry about this though because they won't fail..right?!

All jokes aside, try making a complete compiled list of bugs you are seeing. This could range from faction imbalance to a map glitch. Don't be shy either. Post that list in a thread and in the official, even if its over 100. This will greatly improve the game guys. Making a thread for one issue is kinda of a waste.

Just today I encountered about 10 more bugs to add to my crazy list.

gl 07

SpottyGekko · 2012-09-10, 02:54 PM

Last time I looked, territory could ONLY be taken by infantry in this game

So NC and Vanu squashed you, what did they do next ? Held hands and sang campfire songs ? When they (inevitably) turn on each other, you have your chance.

But more continents will probably make a big difference, unless 2 whole factions can maintain an alliance across 3 continents...

I'd love to see the ability for outfits to store up "contingency resources" which can be allocated to members in times of need. It can even be a "corporate tax" like in EVE, so each outfit member automatically donates a % of their earned resources to the outfit pool.

CutterJohn · 2012-09-10, 06:32 PM

Theres some hardcore people here. I think we did fine in PS1 fighting over 10% hitpoints, Amp shields, dropship bennies, etc. This punishment for losing is too extreme.

Try not sucking? The problem is making several hundred people not suck.