Nerf Aircraft...? How About we Add More types of AA instead.

Methonius · 2013-01-17, 05:12 PM

Instead of nerfing aircraft why don't they just add in more types of AA like the empire specific AA maxes from PS1 of course they would need to come up with something new for TR such as a Spiraling rockets or something that are lock on while your aim is on target. AA would be more prevalent if we had more options. I think the biggest issue is that just having skyguard and bursters are essentially the same thing and the HA lock on launchers are kinda meh also. Don't get me wrong what we have is effective but most ppl don't find the burster stuff fun.

So all I'm saying is that they add in some different types of AA specifically Empire Specific AA. Definitely need ES AA Max guns and also maybe some ES AA on buggies when they come in the game but make them not as much damage as the skyguard just something to add in that will mix it up and make the game so its not so stale.

ShadetheDruid · 2013-01-17, 05:24 PM

Well, in my mind this is something irrelevent to AA/air balance, more stuff to play with is just good in general. And adding more variety isn't adding more ways to kill air, it's just adding different ways to do it.

ES MAX AA (oh noes, the acronyms

) would be pretty awesome, and I think even ES options for the Skyguard would be too (the latter being something i've posted about randomly before, a while ago).

Ghoest9 · 2013-01-17, 05:24 PM

No.
Aircraft needed to be nerfed(or existing AA needed to be buffed but thats semantics).

Dealing with aircraft should be part of the ground game not the majority of it.

Baneblade · 2013-01-17, 05:27 PM

Honestly, hoverspam was one of the things that PS2 shouldn't have taken from PS1. If aircraft have to strafe targets rather than nose in and blow the load, and then fly away to reload... we wouldn't need any nerfs or buffs in regard to the Air vs Ground game.

BlaxicanX · 2013-01-17, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Honestly, hoverspam was one of the things that PS2 shouldn't have taken from PS1. If aircraft have to strafe targets rather than nose in and blow the load, and then fly away to reload... we wouldn't need any nerfs or buffs in regard to the Air vs Ground game.

That's a good point.

Regarding the topic, after thinking on it for awhile, I don't think aircraft even really need a nerf. Rather, AA guns just need a buff.

Libs and stuff don't seem all that OP when fighting out in the open, they're OP when farming bases.

I don't know if increasing AA turret damage would be too much of a buff, but I can say with certainty that buffing turret health would do so much to help the game. Right now they just get focus fired by tanks/air craft and shred like toilet paper.

Imo, AA turrets don't need a damage buff, but they should be invulnerable to damage. The only way to take out an AA turret should be by disabling Gens or some other critical node. When the gen gets taken out, the turret shuts down. When the gen gets repaired, the turret functions again.

Thus, you swing the focus of the game back into infantry doing the bulk of the work, while the vehicles provide support. In the current metagame, it's the other way around.

Paperboy · 2013-01-17, 05:40 PM

Bring back the Rocklet with flak ammo and the automated flak turrets.

Strategy · 2013-01-17, 06:41 PM

There is already enough AA. The problem isn't the ESF's or the Libs (although I agree with the coming Lib changes), it is the base design. The only decently designed bases are biolabs, because they allow for variety in combat. Almost every base in PS2 allows for vehicle heavy gameplay, hence the "vehicle spam."

cooonips · 2013-01-17, 11:48 PM

i think the problem is that almost all the anti air in the game needs to be unlocked. if everyone started with some form of anti air then it may not be such a problem.

perhaps if they introduced a dedicated anti air vehicle like this?

Ghoest9 · 2013-01-17, 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by cooonips

i think the problem is that almost all the anti air in the game needs to be unlocked. if everyone started with some form of anti air then it may not be such a problem.

perhaps if they introduced a dedicated anti air vehicle like this?

That might be true since the last couple of patches that buffed and removed bugs from AA.

But the AA we had at the beginning of the month was useless except for the MAXes.

maradine · 2013-01-18, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by cooonips

i think the problem is that almost all the anti air in the game needs to be unlocked. if everyone started with some form of anti air then it may not be such a problem.

perhaps if they introduced a dedicated anti air vehicle like this?

We already have that in the Skyguard - a dedicated, tank-chassis-based AAA platform. The only difference between an SG and, say, a Shilka, is lack of fire control radar and projectile properties. I think you'll agree both of those are for very reasonable balance purposes.

edit: Also, if you're going to post some hardware, let's at least make it top-of-the-line:

Carver · 2013-01-18, 09:08 PM

I hate how your only real choice for AA as infantry is a MAX. And that's barely infantry, it's basically a vehicle. Lock-on rockets are only going to mildly annoy aircraft, and you'll probably be rocket spammed/lib bombed before you can get a shot off if you are facing an air zerg.

How about some kind handheld version of an AA/flak gun for Heavy Assault?

Also if they ever get around to adding AV/AA turrets for engineers it would be nice. So when i'm standing around a bunch of AA MAXes I can shoot at the planes too and not just throw ammo boxes and wait for somone to take damage.

Kirotan · 2013-01-18, 11:08 PM

I think it's fine as it is right now. If you don't like air, I'm pretty sure things will get better for you once the patch goes in and people get exp for damaging aircraft.

It will be interesting to see how much more AA there will be once they dangle an exp carrot in front of people.

Assist · 2013-01-19, 12:22 AM

Does anyone think the Liberator nerf actually did anything? Same number of Liberators spamming infantry as before. The guys who sat in Liberators before do so now as well. TR ran in a group of 4 Liberators against a VS armor column with 3 Skyguards + bursters and the liberators decimated the whole armor column.

Liberator 'nerf' was a giant joke and as far as it taking more 'skill' now... hardly. Judging the drop of a projecticle when it's travelling verticle is increasing the skill cieling? Sorry, don't agree. It's the same as it was before, the Liberators are just as powerful and nothing has changed.

If they don't feel obligated to nerf them then the Skyguard and bursters still need to be upgraded, the Skyguard in particular as it is still completely useless.

For people that are supposed to be very enthusiastic with eSports and competition gaming their balancing is awful specifically talking about air.

edit: OH, and someone please show me a bomber that bombs air vehicles? Since when does this make sense? No one uses the Walker on libs, everyone uses the bulldogs on back and shoots air down with the dalton/zephyr.
edit: Better yet, show me a bomber that can do a fucking barrel roll and how it makes sense that a vehicle can pack that kind of firepower and manage to fly verticle/upside down. The gravity/physics in this game are horrible when it comes to all vehicles.

edit: If you want a bomber that carries enough rounds to sit in the air for 30 minutes at a time then it needs to have a serious gravity coefficient so it plummets like a rock when it's not actively gaining altitude. Unless of course you're going to give infantry the ability to jump 500 ft and ski around like in tribes(pls)

this is why i dont play platenside drunk

Ghoest9 · 2013-01-19, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

Does anyone think the Liberator nerf actually did anything? Same number of Liberators spamming infantry as before. The guys who sat in Liberators before do so now as well. TR ran in a group of 4 Liberators against a VS armor column with 3 Skyguards + bursters and the liberators decimated the whole armor column.

Liberator 'nerf' was a giant joke and as far as it taking more 'skill' now... hardly. Judging the drop of a projecticle when it's travelling verticle is increasing the skill cieling? Sorry, don't agree. It's the same as it was before, the Liberators are just as powerful and nothing has changed.

If they don't feel obligated to nerf them then the Skyguard and bursters still need to be upgraded, the Skyguard in particular as it is still completely useless.

For people that are supposed to be very enthusiastic with eSports and competition gaming their balancing is awful specifically talking about air.

edit: OH, and someone please show me a bomber that bombs air vehicles? Since when does this make sense? No one uses the Walker on libs, everyone uses the bulldogs on back and shoots air down with the dalton/zephyr.
edit: Better yet, show me a bomber that can do a fucking barrel roll and how it makes sense that a vehicle can pack that kind of firepower and manage to fly verticle/upside down. The gravity/physics in this game are horrible when it comes to all vehicles.

edit: If you want a bomber that carries enough rounds to sit in the air for 30 minutes at a time then it needs to have a serious gravity coefficient so it plummets like a rock when it's not actively gaining altitude. Unless of course you're going to give infantry the ability to jump 500 ft and ski around like in tribes(pls)

this is why i dont play platenside drunk

good point

Basically Libs already weare capable of doing way more damage than was needed - so even with a nerf they are stillover powered.

Kirotan · 2013-01-19, 01:17 PM

Here's how I see it. Feel free to reply and edit where you think my opinion is wrong:

1. Adding more AA to the game will only scare away the less dedicated and/or less skilled pilots. Soon there will be so few pilots that only the Aces will be left in the skies. At this point, air will be so rare that people won't bother pulling AA at all. An ace pilot will show up and farm people for 2-3 minutes. By the time someone pulls AA, he leaves and finds another farm where they aren't expecting air. (This is what I do right now, actually. Last night I went MBT/Lightning hunting, and moved from TI Alloys --> Ceres Hydroponics --> Galaxy Solar --> Palisades --> Crimson Bluff Tower --> Zurvan. By the time I got back to TI alloys, they put all their AA toys away and the cycle repeated). Edit: I AM NOT an ace pilot. I just use the same methods.

2. More ground AA hurts AA ESF pilots first. A2A ESF's are your #1 best killer of enemy air because they can pursue and finish off enemies, something ground AA simply cannot do. A2A ESF pilots quit first because they have no counter to ground AA.

3. A2G ESF pilots will leave next. They stick around a bit longer because they can always rocketpod the AA in the area. They are also good at chasing down liberators and other ESF's.

4. Liberators will be the last to leave: "Dear players, thank you for asking for more AA. ESF's don't have the armor to get close to ground zergs anymore. Meanwhile, I have enough armor to make at least one pass and kill some of you. Oh, and by the way: I don't have to worry about dying while crawling back to get repairs because all this AA scared the ESF's away!

Summary: More AA will make Liberators the "Last man standing" while simultaneously eliminating most of the the pilot/flying element of the game for ESF's. Liberators will become MORE dangerous than ever before, and no amount of adding ground AA will be a 100% deterrent.

Summary 2: Is it safe to say Liberators seem to be peoples' problems more than all air in general?

Does anyone think the Liberator nerf actually did anything? Same number of Liberators spamming infantry as before. The guys who sat in Liberators before do so now as well. TR ran in a group of 4 Liberators against a VS armor column with 3 Skyguards + bursters and the liberators decimated the whole armor column.

If your 3 skyguards were Scythes with A2A you would have 4 dead liberators. They don't even have to be good pilots; if they can hover and not crash into trees, they can point at Libs and shoot lock ons at them from a distance.