ESF's - Your opinion?

Assist · 2013-01-28, 06:08 PM

Higby asked about the primary gun on ESF's, personally I feel they're fine. The exception may be that the AA guns(Hailstorm) do not do enough damage to Liberators, but that may just be me feeling that nothing does enough damage to Liberators.

Rothnang · 2013-01-28, 06:17 PM

Wahh wahh Liberators. Seriously, killing a Liberator with an ESF is trivial, especially given the fact that rocket pods can easily hit a target that big. If ESFs did any more damage to Liberators there wouldn't even be any point in having a fighter escort anymore, since you'd just blow up before they can even intervene.

The primary guns are pretty weaksauce IMO because rocketpods are still damn near the perfect weapon. Even in dogfights people frequently bust out the rocket pods because they are just better than any other weapon a fighter can carry.

SeraphC · 2013-01-28, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

The primary guns are pretty weaksauce IMO because rocketpods are still damn near the perfect weapon. Even in dogfights people frequently bust out the rocket pods because they are just better than any other weapon a fighter can carry.

They bust out the pods while their main weapon is reloading. If they're shooting an other ESF that is. You're not going to kill an ESF with pods other then maybe when it's hanging still or flying in a perfect straight line. You'll get a few lucky hits at best. Better than nothing while reloading.

About the main gun. The Rotary that is. I think it's fine. Not too much damage, not too little. Haven't tried the NC shotgun yet.

belch · 2013-01-28, 06:18 PM

I am pretty fond of my 'skeeters rotary cannon...save for Lib hunting, as you noted. Hell, I've busted Sundies, Mags, Vanguards, with my rotary cannon. I do think the final cert for magazine size (1000 certs for 2 more rounds in the magazine) is a bit ridiculous.

Rothnang · 2013-01-28, 06:31 PM

Yea, the whole +4, +4, +4, +2 thing with the rotary guns and the tankbuster is just weird. I always wonder who thought going from 30 rounds to 44 was somehow better than making it an even 45.

I have no problem killing Liberators with the Hailstorm cannon. The standard gun is better for killing Liberators, but what's wrong with that? The rotary cannon is supposed to be faster firing for dogfights.
The rule of thumb should simply be: If it's hard to hit the rotary cannon helps you, if it's easy to hit a weapon with more damage is in order. Liberators are easy to hit.

ShadetheDruid · 2013-01-28, 06:32 PM

I don't really get that Libs are too tough, I regularly take them out (or scare them off with a massive chunk out of their health) just with the default gun. Yeah, it takes a few magazines to actually kill them, but it's not impossible (especially against something so big and slow).

I have noticed the issue people talk about with the mounting of the Reaver gun, possibly something that should be looked at (though i'm not going to go all "it's the end of the world" about it).

I can't really comment on the other nose guns besides the defaults though, they aren't really my style.

Rothnang · 2013-01-28, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by SeraphC

They bust out the pods while their main weapon is reloading. If they're shooting an other ESF that is. You're not going to kill an ESF with pods other then maybe when it's hanging still or flying in a perfect straight line. You'll get a few lucky hits at best. Better than nothing while reloading.

It all depends on how close you are. There are some people who have gotten really good at flying so close that they pretty much can't miss.

In most fights against Liberators people go straight to rocket pods, which easily kill a Liberator in two salvos, and it isn't even hard to hit.

As far as I'm concerned rocket pods are the primary armament of ESFs right now. The primary weapons are really the secondary option.

The balance isn't very good either. For example if you fit a scythe with A2A missiles and a PPA it will be worse at both ground and air combat than a scythe with a Hailstorm laser and rocket pods. Rocket Pods are just unbeatable, despite the dozens of nerfs they have taken.

The only weapon that outperforms rocket pods on burst damage is the tankbuster as far as I can tell, and bringing in a Liberator for a hovering attack with its front weapon isn't anywhere near as easy as doing it with a fighter. Also the tankbuster doesn't have a blast radius.

Personally I think ESFs would be better balanced if their strongest anti-armor option was a primary weapon that has no blast radius.

Chewy · 2013-01-28, 07:01 PM

Granted I don't have much time in the air with ESFs, but I like their main weapons. Enough starting ammo to do work with the damage they deal (though rotary guns eat it up if you got bad aim) but not so much that they can stay in a fight longer than they should before you get to learn the aircraft. My pet peeve is how much ammo rockets have. A2A feel right, but strapping 30-50 A2G rockets on a small craft seems like overkill.

Without certs I think ESFs should have the ammo (for both 2nd and 1st weapons) to engage only a few targets. Wouldn't mind if ESFs had raw power if they didn't have the ammo to stay in a fight. 300-400 main gun rounds and 6 A2A/20 A2G rockets should be all that's needed for stock/un-certed loadouts.

maradine · 2013-01-28, 07:57 PM

I am happy with all three ESF weapons in the Scythe - each has a place, I've sunk a pile of points into each, and I use them all to varying degrees. I can't speak for any of the other post-tech ESF main guns, but they certainly hurt when you get bounced. I tend not to use rockets against air targets unless I'm desperate and/or empty, and I haven't seen many Reaver/Mossy pilots attempt the same on me. Maybe a server thing?

belch · 2013-01-28, 08:03 PM

It's not all that common, maradine...but the better ESF'ers I've caught podding use them fairly effectively. Mainly, closing the distance as fast as they can to me, then using nose gun in typical dogfight mode...but if they can catch me at close range with a rocket or 2, I am suddenly hurting much worse than a few seconds before lol. I've been up against it a handful of times, and I have to say...unpleasant.

I feel like I just gave the enemy the OPORD complete with graphics.

GrmlZ · 2013-01-28, 08:46 PM

Well,the A2A guns seem to be well balanced.
As far as the other "sidegrade" guns go, i like the air hammer, its a great allround weapon that can be used against any kind of target and excels at killing liberators and sundys
The PPA and banshee are more focused on a A2G role than the AH, and i think thats a problem since they are made pretty much obsolete in this role by the rocket pods.

maradine · 2013-01-28, 08:55 PM

Disagree completely re: the PPA - it's superior to pods for hunting infantry in almost every measurable way. It's lousy against vehicles, however.

GrmlZ · 2013-01-28, 09:13 PM

I find it hard to imagine that anything cleans up inf even faster than pods.

maradine · 2013-01-28, 09:20 PM

Not in instant output against a tight (<2.5m) cluster, but the PPA keeps on going. The PPA is still ending lives with its first magazine through the entire rocket volley and reload cycle. And then you get to magazine size extensions.

If you can afford any dwell time over the target area whatsoever, PPA all the way. That said, it's getting increasingly hard to find dwell time these days.

belch · 2013-01-28, 10:23 PM

I like to call it loitering...fits my miscreant motif. :P