Resources - purposeless

ringring · 2013-02-14, 08:22 AM

I've given my opinion of resources previously and this is why from an actual example.

I logged in and went to Esamir - with full resources.

TR was losing ouw last outpost (and had 15% pop) so myself and a couple of outfit mates went to defend. I pulled a prowler.

But, too many NC in armour and air and I couldn't get anywhere, I lost my tank to an A2G reaver.

We lost the outpost.

I pulled a lighning and returned. We won the outpost back but I lost the lightning.

We attacked Jaegers Crossing and had quite a nice fight actually.

I pulled a sundy but lost it to an NC tank.

At this point I had ended up in the warpgate, wanting to rejoin the fight at Jaegers but niether me and my outfit mate had used all our vehicles resources.

We simply decided we had to go to a different continent to replenish. And actually I went afk in the WG hopefully replenishing while I was doing something out entirely.

Honwestly, nothing would come to harm if resources were removed entirely.

Assist · 2013-02-14, 08:55 AM

Agreed, it's also the reason I think resources should have been revamped in January or ASAP. If they re-do them to make them matter then it's going to change the balance of the game. If they remove them completely it just takes away another element that could have made Planetside 2 more indepth and involved. IMO, resources could have been redone so that they made territory matter quite a bit more. Right now territory only matters so you can fill up your infantry consumables, I really hope they take them a step farther and make them important to the meta game. I think that if they do that however it will change the balance of the game dramatically, similar to what the changes to render distance do to balance.

Kerrec · 2013-02-14, 09:05 AM

I've already suggested this elwewhere, but I think it works here too.

My suggestion is to create a new Loadout that can't be altered. I'd call it Loadout 0 (zero).

Then I would allow people to pull UNCERTED vehicles, (IE: Loadout 0) for no resource cost from Warpgates (and only from Warpgates). Timers still apply.

The game would default to pull Loadout 1, and use up resources if you have any available. But if you don't have enough resources, then you get a bone stock vehicle. Pretty much useless for Sunderers, but a stock MBT, Lightning, ESF, Liberator is better than nothing.

Sirisian · 2013-02-14, 06:11 PM

As mentioned this is in the roadmap for the end of May.

Lot of discussion about supply line resource models like PoisonTaco mentioned with the PS1 model. I personally don't think they'd work in PS2.

Originally Posted by Kerrec

The game would default to pull Loadout 1, and use up resources if you have any available. But if you don't have enough resources, then you get a bone stock vehicle. Pretty much useless for Sunderers, but a stock MBT, Lightning, ESF, Liberator is better than nothing.

That is discussed heavily. We had thread here on PSU about such models. I wrote up one implementation of the universal playstyle resource sink as I call it over at the forums in a simplified format. It's identical to your model of certs costing resources such that players build their loadouts without restrictions. (I kept the class system for simplicity since I honestly doubt they'll ever get rid of it even with a resource model to restrict players).

Originally Posted by Calisai

Even if Resources were needed and necessary, the current system rewards the victors and punishes defenders... the more you are pushed towards your warpgate, the less resources you are getting, to the point where it will snowball.

Completely solved in the above model in the link using a loyalty based system.

Rahabib · 2013-02-14, 09:31 PM

The sad thing is if SOE started using resources wisely it could solve a lot of balance issues. You can have vehicles that's OP but, instead of reducing it'd functionality, increase resources so it's not used as much. This way you can have terrifying vehicles buy only spawn so often. Right now it's a game of rock paper scizzors where nobody wins.

ringring · 2013-02-14, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

Agreed, it's also the reason I think resources should have been revamped in January or ASAP. If they re-do them to make them matter then it's going to change the balance of the game. If they remove them completely it just takes away another element that could have made Planetside 2 more indepth and involved. IMO, resources could have been redone so that they made territory matter quite a bit more. Right now territory only matters so you can fill up your infantry consumables, I really hope they take them a step farther and make them important to the meta game. I think that if they do that however it will change the balance of the game dramatically, similar to what the changes to render distance do to balance.

At the moment rsrouces add no depth whatsoever, they are simply another form of timer.

Mietz · 2013-02-14, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

At the moment rsrouces add no depth whatsoever, they are simply another form of timer.

Yes, thats why fellow beta-testers called for either-or, not both.

But when we said "resources have no purpose" the developers read "auraxium has no purpose" and thats how we never got this resolved.

Resource-play can only work if the system underlying it is structured like an RTS (or grand strategy). If you can't bleed the opponent dry, you might as well not have resources in the first place.

The current system is only there as a limiter for individuals not empires and as such doesn't need to be there at all. Timers fulfill that function just fine.

If we ever get the grand strategy play, -then- timers should be removed and the system switched to resources as it fulfills both functions of personal and empire limiter.

Rahabib · 2013-02-14, 11:11 AM

agreed. However SOE has stated they want people to infinitely spawn their vehicle of choice - so resources will always remain meaningless.

The only way to make resources do something, and add something to the metagame is make resources a limited commodity. Empires need the ability to shut off resources to make them valuable.

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...-better.74988/

Emperor Newt · 2013-02-14, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Mietz

But when we said "resources have no purpose" the developers read "auraxium has no purpose" and thats how we never got this resolved.

Well, Auraxium had absolutely no purpose. The others at least could have. So we have to give them that.

Wahooo · 2013-02-14, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mietz

Resource-play can only work if the system underlying it is structured like an RTS (or grand strategy). If you can't bleed the opponent dry, you might as well not have resources in the first place.

The current system is only there as a limiter for individuals not empires and as such doesn't need to be there at all. Timers fulfill that function just fine.

If we ever get the grand strategy play, -then- timers should be removed and the system switched to resources as it fulfills both functions of personal and empire limiter.

This. But since we are no where near having any kind of true grand strategy the resources are moot.

Ghodere · 2013-02-14, 11:54 AM

Resources can be limiting in the current system, but they are always meaningless. Consider that, when you're warpgated, it takes two hours to accumulate enough mech resources for a MBT. That's limiting as hell, we just need to find a way to make them not be either completely irrelevant or crippling, and never anything else.

Tatwi · 2013-02-14, 11:57 AM

Engineers who place a lot of stuff in busy locations are the only people who notice the resource system. Uncerted vehicle lockout timers are more than enough time to make back the resources for the vehicle.

In the end, they really add nothing to the game and no one cares. May as well remove them and just put a timer on resupplying consumables (that can be certed down per item).