Default arsenal should contain a shotgun/SMG

[Rolfski]

For two reasons:

1. No matter the changes, this game is still Shotgunside 2, especially in towers.
2. The SMG has given the infiltrator a totally new role, making it one of the best, if not the best, CQB class now.

This puts new players or players not willing to spend SC or the very high amount of 1000 certs on these guns at an unfair disadvantage, which should be compensated with the default arsenal.

This is especially the case for the SMG as it is pretty much the only option to go with the infiltrator if you want to "infiltrate" up close.
Shotguns take a bit more skill to be a viable solution. Still, I'm a strong opponent of insta-kill weapons, no matter their disadvantages and the skill it takes. The (pump-action) shotguns got down-voted on the road map for a reason. SOE not listening to the community and spending so much time on releasing a complete arsenal of them was one of the worst design decisions so far imo. However, now the reality is there and we've got to live with them, it's only fair to give default classes access to them as well.

Proposed solution:

• Make one of the SMG's and shotguns available as default.
• Refund certs/SC people have spend on acquiring these particular guns.

[AThreatToYou]

• Introduce a new NS SMG and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100-250)
• Introduce a new NS Shotgun and offer it at a reduced cert cost
  • or
    
  • Introduce NS Punisher and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100)(or free) with cheaper attachments (including shotgun attachment)

Problem pretty much solved, no difficult stomaching of revenue loss (refunds).
I do however think that new players should have access to these weapon types.
If we're going with empire-specific weaponry, differentiate them:
- TR receive SMG (oh wait, repeater?)
- NC receive shotgun (oh wait, NC MAX?)
- VS receive a weapon that can switch fire modes between long and short/SMG and shotty (with tradeoffs)(do not have)(charge up mode being the short-range entirely possible for new beamer)

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

• Introduce a new NS SMG and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100-250)
• Introduce a new NS Shotgun and offer it at a reduced cert cost
  • or
    
  • Introduce NS Punisher and offer it at a reduced cert cost (100)(or free) with cheaper attachments (including shotgun attachment)

Problem pretty much solved, no difficult stomaching of revenue loss (refunds).
I do however think that new players should have access to these weapon types.
If we're going with empire-specific weaponry, differentiate them:
- TR receive SMG (oh wait, repeater?)
- NC receive shotgun (oh wait, NC MAX?)
- VS receive a weapon that can switch fire modes between long and short/SMG and shotty (with tradeoffs)(do not have)(charge up mode being the short-range entirely possible for new beamer)

I've thought of the solutions you're proposing here but came to the conclusion that these weapons should really be free and part of the default arsenal. Therefore giving away a current weapon is probably the least hassle for SOE to execute.

Second best solution would be to make the NS variants of these weapons part of the standard arsenal. People who bought SMG's/shotguns because free versions where not available back then would still be complaining though and demand a refund. So that's why I think my solution will prevent customer dissatisfaction.

[phungus]

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play. I can't wait to hear the MLG recaps: the comments about how everyone needs to use shotguns and MAX suits will be priceless.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

[Snydenthur]

As long as they give pump-actions. I don't want to see a lot of semi auto shotguns running around, that would be hard. Pump actions for more people just makes the game a lot easier.

@phungus

I don't have any problems. I love being infantry. Pump actions are very overrated and over exaggerated weapons. People are just too stuck on the chance to ohk, but the truth is, that doesn't happen very often. I don't have any problems with handling them with carbine. I die to them usually 0-5 times out of 100. And I do fight indoors and at biolabs very often.

Semi auto and auto shotguns are on the borderline of being op though. They are not, but very close.

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by phungus

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play. I can't wait to hear the MLG recaps: the comments about how everyone needs to use shotguns and MAX suits will be priceless.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

Shotguns and MAX suits are not all there is to infantry combat right now, wtf are you smoking? I may own a sweeper but I hardly ever use it. Less than once a day.

Even inside a biolab, there's more to use than shotguns & MAX units...

[KodanBlack]

Originally Posted by phungus

Shotguns are so stupid in their current implementation. Shotguns and MAXes are all there is in infantry fighting now, so glad I can use an ESF and ignore the cooky cutter shotgun loadout that defines PS2 infantry play.

Instead, using the cookie cutter rocketpod loadout that defines PS2 air power.

Serious question? How can you guys play infantry for any amount of time? Do you all just run around with OP shotguns? I can do it for maybe 10 minutes before reaching my breaking point, having half my enemies get a weapon that can instagib me at medium and closer ranges without needing to be aimed is just asinine.

Rhetorical answer, the same way that an ESF pilot can stand the contiual strafing runs with what many consider OP rocketpods against loads of infantry. It's flipping FUN!

This game has one of the worst weapon balances in infantry I have ever seen. It's just pump action and auto shotties and no other viable weapons... even doom2 was better. The only reason to play is for the ESF.

So that you can simply farm infantry and not have to face shotguns doing so?

Look, there are no one sided ways to play this game. Complaints about something being OP are silly to me after I sit back (for no more than a moment) to think of effective counters to what I've run into.

Infantry combat, even in (especially in) close quarters, is dynamic and exciting. Are there a lot of shotguns? Hell yeah, they excel in close quarters (I'm pretty sure that was how they were designed), but I see a huge number of SMG's, LMG's and other weapons in the mix, all doing just as well. I've even been using my SMG, NS-11C and NS-15M a lot more lately and I love them! They're effective at more than one range and extremely versatile when compared to a shotgun. That said, I won't hang up my shotguns. They have their role, even if it is a narrow one.

[Galron]

No. There are too many in game as it is.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Galron

No. There are too many in game as it is.

Completely agree. They're in the wrong hands though, paying people only. Which is why I created this topic.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Completely agree. They're in the wrong hands though, paying people only. Which is why I created this topic.

Agreed. At least give "normal" players the ability to fight back on equal terms. Heck it might even help show the issues with the base design and the effectiveness of the shotguns.

[Kail]

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Completely agree. They're in the wrong hands though, paying people only. Which is why I created this topic.

Yeah, its terrible that shotguns are only available for SC through the marketplace.

I don't think SMGs and Shotgun's need to be available by default because the default weapon's aren't supposed to allow for every gameplay style. If you look, every single default weapon across infantry & vehicles fits into a "useful at any range and target" category with the exception of the sniper rifles.

However I think it would make a lot of sense to have one of the shotguns be a 250 or 500 cert version to allow players to pick up that playstyle faster if that's what they want (much like the Burst or SF variants of carbines / ARs).

[Falcon_br]

Already create a topic about the matter, as I said, there is no point of having 6 shotguns, all costing 700 sc / 1.000 certs:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=54755

Also, we got 2 smgs, and one of them is useless for the TR, with more 2 on the game they can scale the prices of it.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

Also, we got 2 smgs, and one of them is useless for the TR, with more 2 on the game they can scale the prices of it.

One of them is useless for each faction. The one that came out first. So got burned on that one. The Armistice, Eridani and Cyclone are all useless to compared to their extended mag counter parts which are the Hailstorm, Sirius and Blitz.

[Lonehunter]

It is a good point though. With the addition of SMGs and Shotguns CQC is much different then release, it would only make sense making one easily available, not free, but like 100 certs :/

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

One of them is useless for each faction. The one that came out first. So got burned on that one. The Armistice, Eridani and Cyclone are all useless to compared to their extended mag counter parts which are the Hailstorm, Sirius and Blitz.

No? I tried the Blitz, useless past about ~7m. Cyclone has some range on it.

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Personally I wouldn't mind the Infiltrator getting a Default SMG instead of a Sniper Rifle...

Do that.