The much needed changes for TR LMG's

[Rolfski]

The most heard complaint about guns in this game is that they look & feel too similar but also perform too similar. To change that, a lot can already be gained with relatively little effort in the balance/statistics or performance department.
The class to start with is TR LMG's because they suffer from this the most imo. They should be very good in a specific role while sucking at another.
This is unfortunately not the case with TR LMG's atm:

• T9 Carv lacks too much at distance to be a good all-round starter weapon
• MSW-R is too all-round for a CQB weapon
• T9 Carv S lacks customizability and underperforms at range for its intended role.
• TMG-50 is too strong short-mid range while lacking at long range
• T32 Bull doesn't know what it wants to be, it's too similar to T16.
• T16 doesn't make sense, combining big magazines with mid-long range capabilities.

Below are some ideas for TR LMG performance changes. Warning: other factions LMG's need changes as well to balance this out (VS Ursa would be UP vs new TMG-50), but TR LMG seems to be the weapon class that needs most fixing:

• T9 Carv: Great allround dakka gun with limited attachments.
  Slight buff to 0,2 horizontal recoil to make it more viable beyond 40m at the cost of bullet speed (600 => 580: Not sure tbh, maybe this gun needs a straight buff).
  
• T9 Carv S: Jack of all trades, master of none gun with amazing flexibility in load-outs.
  Give it access to advanced fwd grip/advanced laser sight to pronounce it's flexible role and a slight buff to 0,4 vertical recoil to allow for better burst fire over ranges, at the cost of reload speed. This should make it a better and more flexible all-rounder to the T9-Carv at the cost of dps.
  
• MSW-R: Dedicated CQB.
  Give it 0,75 ADS movement speed (great for short-mid range) at the cost of first shot recoil (2,5 => 3,0) that should hamper it's burst fire capabilities.
  
• TMG 50: Dedicated long range.
  COF from 0,6 to 0,5. Decrease vertical recoil from 0,45 to 0,3. Increase bullet speed to 640. At the cost of fire rate (577 => 550 RPM). This should make it a better long range LMG and inferior short range performer.
  
• T32 Bull: Dedicated mid range ADS.
  Give it access to advanced fwd grip, increase ammo pool to pre-nerf status (never made sense) and kill it's hipfire bonuses. This should make it a great gun for assaulting bigger bases but not good enough for CQB or long range.
  
• T16 Rhino: Sustained fire and high damage per magazine, close to mid range.
  Increase ROF to 698 RPM, decrease reload speed to 3,5/4,6 sec. Standard magazine 150 (extended 250). Give it a hipfire bonus. Increase vertical recoil to 0,35, horizontal to 0,22, first shot to 2,5. Decrease bullet speed to 600.
  This should make it a powerhouse to take out multiple enemies up till mid range, where the big magazines make sense, while not a make it powerful enough at longer ranges. Maybe take out the advanced fwd grip as well.

Btw all guns need access to 2x reflex. CQB to mid range guns need access to 1x reflex as well. And please, state very clear roles in the gun description mouse-over that should include recoil stats as well. People pay money for these guns and should be well-informed when buying them.

[ringring]

I've played with the Carv, The Carv-s and the Rhino.

The Carv-S was the only one I didn't like and to my eyes seemed like a downgrade to the Carv.

The Rhino suited me well and that's the gun I generally recommend if anyone asks me.

Having said all of that, I would need some persuading that a buff for any of these guns is needed. I'm not the best, far from it but I did ok with them.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by ringring

Having said all of that, I would need some persuading that a buff for any of these guns is needed.

I'm not proposing a general buff, I'm proposing a more pronounced role, which should go for other empires as well btw. NC and VS LMG class is a mess as well.

[Ghoest9]

Ive been using the MCG lately.


Who cares abut other LMGs when you have that beast?
90% of the time it probably the best gun in the whole game that anyone could hope to be holding.

[maradine]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

90% of the time it probably the best gun in the whole game that anyone could hope to be holding.

There is a growing body of data pointing to this being utterly untrue. In fact, from where I'm sitting, I'd rather be using any other TR LMG, sans the default.

[Varsam]

Originally Posted by maradine

There is a growing body of data pointing to this being utterly untrue. In fact, from where I'm sitting, I'd rather be using any other TR LMG, sans the default.

I'd be interested in seeing said data.

[MGP]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Ive been using the MCG lately.


Who cares abut other LMGs when you have that beast?
90% of the time it probably the best gun in the whole game that anyone could hope to be holding.

Pffft. MCG is a P.O.S. Anything you can do with MCG i can do better with LMG. MCG don't have a single advantage over LMGs.

[Falcon_br]

The tr has only 2 lmg.
Tmg-50 for long range.
Msw-r for close range.

End of discussion, all the others are not worth to get it, 100 certs the msw-r and 500 the tmg-50.
I have all of then (not the m32 bull because it is pointless) and they just plain suck bad, I can get some kills with the rhino, but I still like the msw-r and the tmg-50 more.
The t9 carv since the nerf, you can't hit more then two bullets in the same target in the same burst unless you have a foregrip on it. It is just bad, real bad.
I made a Vanu on the test server, I really can't believe they have all that variety of lmg while we only got two real options. They even have a lmg with the same status as the msw-r, but with 0,75 move speed while ads! And it is not the best in the VS arsenal!

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

The tr has only 2 lmg.
Tmg-50 for long range.
Msw-r for close range.

End of discussion, all the others are not worth to get it, 100 certs the msw-r and 500 the tmg-50.
I have all of then (not the m32 bull because it is pointless) and they just plain suck bad, I can get some kills with the rhino, but I still like the msw-r and the tmg-50 more.
The t9 carv since the nerf, you can't hit more then two bullets in the same target in the same burst unless you have a foregrip on it. It is just bad, real bad.
I made a Vanu on the test server, I really can't believe they have all that variety of lmg while we only got two real options. They even have a lmg with the same status as the msw-r, but with 0,75 move speed while ads! And it is not the best in the VS arsenal!

except the TMG-50 doesn't excel at long range as it supposed to due to the crazy jumping recoil of the gun even when firing short controlled bursts, the Carv & Carv-S are more accurate at distance shooting even with their nerf.
The TMG-50 is a very decent mid range gun, it does not do what it says on the tin however.

[Varsam]

Originally Posted by Canaris

except the TMG-50 doesn't excel at long range as it supposed to due to the crazy jumping recoil of the gun even when firing short controlled bursts, the Carv & Carv-S are more accurate at distance shooting even with their nerf.
The TMG-50 is a very decent mid range gun, it does not do what it says on the tin however.

In that case, there is no such thing as a long range LMG (or any automatic weapon for that matter). They all have recoil and bloom. The point is that it's still better than most at long range combat. Just because something is better suited for long range engagements doesn't mean it should be EZ mode.

[camycamera]

ima just gonna get the minigun

[Rolfski]

I would like some feedback about the proposed changes please. Are very clear and specific roles for guns welcome at all (like TR LMG's in this topic) and if yes, would you agree with the direction proposed?

This topic got down-voted on reddit but I'm having a hard time understanding why. Guess I wasn't clear enough about all factions needing these changes but the question still stands: Why would you invest in guns if they all performed the same with only minor differences? Just to get multiple Auraxium medals? For me, that doesn't cut it. I prefer very clear, specific roles for guns but maybe I'm a minority.

[mrmrmrj]

As someone who plays primarily as NC, I have to call bullshit on the claim that TR has no good long range LMGs. TR gets more headshots with LMGs on me that I ever get with my NC6 SAW or VS ever gets on me. That implies they are the most accurate. I love the TMG 50. I find it much easier to get mid to long range kills than my fully certed NC6 Gauss SAW. And the TMG 50 is better at close range.

[exohkay]

I think TR LMG's are underwhelming, and they do need a bit of diversification, just like the NC vehicles (especially the vanguard) could use a bit of a change.

Currently TR weaponry looks and sounds identical, and it feels pretty bland to use. I don't enjoy playing TR HA, except for the striker.

I think the data that has come out will be useful (CHEERS ORACLE OF DEATH) in exposing areas that could be changed/diversified.

Balance is a two way street, and if the TR weaponry is brought into line, I would expect certain other areas that are outperforming (read TR vehicle weaponry) be brought into line with the NC/VS options.

[Adenn]

The CARV is actually a great starting gun. Good for short range and capable at midrange thanks to the sheer amount of bullets it throws at the enemy. Lacks at long range, but that's to be expected from a bullet hose.
The huge swap time is the only thing that makes no sense whatsoever, it's just annoyingly slow.

The CARV-S needs something to make it more than a crappy SVA-88. Advanced grip would do the trick and make it better at range than the CARV while still being worse than a T16 or TMG-50. The 0.45 recoil is perfectly manageable thanks to the low fsr.

The MSW-R is fine as it is. It trades the 0.75x movement multiplier for an advanced laser. Great for close but still capable at medium range, just like the CARV.

The TMG-50 jumps around like a maniac for no reason, but otherwise it's solid and good for long range. A buff to bullet speed would be nice, but unneeded.

The T32 Bull is a mid-short range lmg oriented towards accuracy and mobility. A mix of the MSW-R and the T16. I think that this could just use a larger ammo pool, it runs out incredibly quickly for a lmg.

The T16 Rhino is dedicated for midrange and accurate fire (.2 recoil with advanced grip) and is one of the best guns we have. Giving it access to a 2x reflex is the only thing i'd do.

In the end, TR LMGs are a bit lacking in variety (no real bullet hoses with crappy damage and huge rof), but the ones we have aren't as similar as you seem to think.

I pretty much agree with that guy. The proposed changes won't hurt, but I don't think they aren't really necessary either.