This game just became officially p2w

Rolfski · 2014-07-02, 06:35 AM

From the patch notes:

"All infantry and MAX weapon attachments are now purchasable with Station Cash. Like the existing weapon optics, any attachment purchased with station cash will be unlocked account wide."

Meaning you can buy straight power/upgrades with cash now. Even Smedley admitted: "For those of you using the slippery slope argument ok. I agree. It is a slippery slope."

Needless to say, this is a very bad direction for a game that has a reputation to hold up for not being p2w.
Giving this game a bad p2w reputation, while there are still so many other revenue ways to exploit (name change/ server change tokens, anyone?) is not a smart move with a PS4 launch coming up.

Figment · 2014-07-02, 06:38 AM

Not pay to win if you can unlock it through gameplay tbh.

Pay to speed up progress, more like.

Mox · 2014-07-08, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

Not pay to win if you can unlock it through gameplay tbh.

Pay to speed up progress, more like.

Sir, thats just naive!

Gimpylung · 2014-07-08, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Mox

Sir, thats just naive!

Explain why it's naive without the decorations if possible.

War Barney · 2014-07-02, 06:47 AM

Hmmm its getting close to p2w at the very least, I guess it depends if your definition of p2w is using money to buy power via items its impossible to get any other way than paying money, or if its just being allowed to use money to buy things which give you an advantage.

Myself I'm not sure... I'd prefer if they didn't let you pay SC as well as it really is at least teetering on the line of p2w BUT its 100 certs for attatchments so it takes like an hour of playing to unlock stuff.

HOWEVER MAX unlocks though NOT be included, I don't know about other factions but for the NC extrended mags are absolutely essential for our guns to be useful and thats 500 certs, and often slugs are vital as well (if you want a range over 5m) which is I think 250 certs, so thats 1500 certs which give you a very definite boost in power.

One question though.. does account wide mean if I buy a laser sight with SC its unlocked for EVERY weapon on EVERY faction? if so that is a bit of a game changer as suddenly its 1000s of certs worth of stuff your getting.

Rolfski · 2014-07-02, 06:57 AM

Whether or not it's strictly p2w depends on the definition of p2w, which is a never ending discussion.

What's more important however is the perception of being p2w. Every single article around this game has always a big p2w discussion in the comments. And the most used argument in that discussion has always been that you could only buy side-grades, not upgrades in this game with cash. Killing off that argument is the same as throwing your non-p2w reputation out the window.

Figment · 2014-07-02, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Whether or not it's strictly p2w depends on the definition of p2w, which is a never ending discussion.

What's more important however is the perception of being p2w. Every single article around this game has always a big p2w discussion in the comments. And the most used argument in that discussion has always been that you could only buy side-grades, not upgrades in this game with cash. Killing off that argument is the same as throwing your non-p2w reputation out the window.

Well it was quite clear that the moment they were upgrades in beta, people would get more power from the basic. Sidegrades in PS2 is per definition more a choice between upgrades. :/

Does it matter if it's paying players that get an advantage or lib/mossie/spawncamp farmers though?

Rolfski · 2014-07-02, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

Well it was quite clear that the moment they were upgrades in beta, people would get more power from the basic. Sidegrades in PS2 is per definition more a choice between upgrades. :/

Does it matter if it's paying players that get an advantage or lib/mossie/spawncamp farmers though?

Side-grades are definitely not designed as upgrades in this game but just as an option for a different play style.

Aside from the discussion if that truly holds up in reality, it matters a LOT if players can buy an advantage. Even with these small attachments hardly being game changers, the real damage is giving the game a bad reputation.

Figment · 2014-07-02, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Side-grades are definitely not designed as upgrades in this game but just as an option for a different play style.

Whether you get a side armour or front armour, both are an upgrade compared to having nothing. Both are sidegrades with respect to one another though.

Aside from the discussion if that truly holds up in reality, it matters a LOT if players can buy an advantage. Even with these small attachments hardly being game changers, the real damage is giving the game a bad reputation.

But it isn't a major advantage, I'm more upset with people that can get hundreds of certs through lame gameplay.

Gimpylung · 2014-07-02, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Whether or not it's strictly p2w depends on the definition of p2w, which is a never ending discussion.

What's more important however is the perception of being p2w. Every single article around this game has always a big p2w discussion in the comments. And the most used argument in that discussion has always been that you could only buy side-grades, not upgrades in this game with cash. Killing off that argument is the same as throwing your non-p2w reputation out the window.

And now you have created another similar discussion and helped reinforce the perception.

There is so weapon or upgrade in this game that a free2player can't access. People are always looking at this Pay2Win argument from the wrong direction.

OMG, you can unlock something with money

versus

OMG, I can't access something without paying

The former is PS2, the latter is Pay2Win.

Osskscosco · 2014-07-02, 11:52 AM

Paying for the lack of skill, i don't see a problem with that.

If you can rub together at least 2 brain cells then you will have enough certs to be useful in no time. If not then pay!

VaderShake · 2014-07-02, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Gimpylung

And now you have created another similar discussion and helped reinforce the perception.

There is so weapon or upgrade in this game that a free2player can't access. People are always looking at this Pay2Win argument from the wrong direction.

OMG, you can unlock something with money

versus

OMG, I can't access something without paying

The former is PS2, the latter is Pay2Win.

Very nice summation, but you jsut know the P2W crowd will just say you don't understand and ramble on about the same misguided argument because they just don't get it.

Osskscosco · 2014-07-02, 07:23 AM

Pay2win means that you can buy overpowered things with SC but not with certs, so go home!

War Barney · 2014-07-02, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Osskscosco

Pay2win means that you can buy overpowered things with SC but not with certs, so go home!

No p2w can mean either:

1. Buying power with money, which this technically is as you are spending money to get a more stable gun / better hip fire which is buying power.

2. Buying power with money that other people can't get without paying money, basically meaning you can never be as powerful as somebody who paid money.

2 is obviously the worst form of it as it means if you pay you will pretty much always win, but 1 is still teetering on that line, its basically going 1 step further from exp boosts which save you time by letting you earn certs faster by instead just letting you spend money instead of certs.

Rolfski · 2014-07-02, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Osskscosco

Pay2win means that you can buy overpowered things with SC but not with certs, so go home!

That's only one definition of p2w. The problem is that there are more definitions of p2w and this game just became p2w by one of these definitions, which is bad PR.

Originally Posted by Figment

Whether you get a side armour or front armour, both are an upgrade compared to having nothing. Both are sidegrades with respect to one another though.

Side armour and front armour are both upgrades over default armour, which is power you can buy with cash now.

But it isn't a major advantage, I'm more upset with people that can get hundreds of certs through lame gameplay.

It's not so much about how big the advantage is you can buy with cash now, it's about giving up an important principle to stay out of the p2w realm.
This game being Farmvilleside 2 is a discussion for another topic.