Originally Posted by wolfkrone
Really tough question. I guess I would like to see less waiting around for bases to capture. There should still be some bases that require the full 15 mins because Galaxy rescues are really awesome, but maybe they could just leave the old style capture for strategic bases and have all the others use LLU.
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I love "defending the hack." It's a great source of tension. What can make it suck, though, is when all resistance just disappears, and you're "defending" against, well, nobody. I think defending the hack is a better mechanic than LLUs, there simply needs to be some balance and mechanics tweaking done to ensure that the defenders don't either just give up entirely, or find themselves unable to mount a resistance. Some of this is population related, and I'm open to discussing ideas on the rest of it.
Originally Posted by Rbstr
You really need to play a more serious shooter to get what I'm saying, CS:S is kind of like it. BC2 hardcore is the real model.
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But I don't like more "serious shooters." I like good team games that I can at least keep up in and contribute despite my lack of a desire to play daily 6 hour sessions to hone my reflexes. I'm not knocking the "serious shooters," I simply think that a) the market has a glut of them, and b) it's a radical departure from the original, which will alienate some fans of the franchise.
Originally Posted by Rbstr
Essentially I want to make things really quite deadly. This has a few effects:
1. People value cover and tactical positioning more. If you get caught in the open you're toast, not just inconvenienced when you reach the next cover.
2. Aiming and weapon control becomes a much more valuable skill. (especially when implemented with a real recoil system, instead of equal probability COF wackiness).
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I'm all for getting people to value cover and tactical positioning. There are other ways, though, that don't sacrifice the pace of combat and over-penalize (in the context of the franchise's history) slower reflexes.
Also, COF management is just as interesting as more authentic and predictable recoil. It's a different feel, that's all, and any choice you make will have advocates and detractors.
Originally Posted by Rbstr
3. Getting the drop on someone makes more difference. When I played PS, a rexo/HA could make a full turn around at close range and kill an agile/MA that was shooting him in the back because of the cof bloom and HP differences. That's dumb.
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Then you didn't manage your range adequately, despite getting the drop on him. Or you weren't managing your COF bloom as well as he was. This has never been the case in my experience. He might get a chance to injure you, but HA at ideal range is superior to MA, whenever I've played.
Originally Posted by Rbstr
4. Longer distance combat and outdoor combat becomes more prominent. If MA can pick you off instead of being, mostly, an annoyance suddenly the struggle doesn't just focus near as much around stairwells and corridors like PS used to.
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It sounds like you're speaking from a heavily TR perspective, here. Pick up a gauss or a punisher sometime. The cycler's a lousy example, because it suffers some balance issues of its own, but the problem isn't MA, or ranged combat outdoors. Vehicles might actually be a contributing factor here, though, to be honest. Your goal whenever is exposed is to get to shelter before a vehicle/aircraft notices you. This is a bigger hindrance to outdoor ranged combat than the efficacy of MA.
Originally Posted by Rbstr
Basically a system where HA is about close range domination and long range sustained fire and suppression, while MA is more of a general use thing. They basically kill you in about the same # of hits, but HA is going to be able keep longer bursts for the chaotic short range stuff, while MA gives you more precision at longer ranges.
The theory the same as to the current HA/MA stuff, but it's been aligned so they over lap far more. HA would also be able to deal with MAX to some degree while MA would not fare well.
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I disagree that they need overlap. Planetside follows a set of loose rock/paper/scissors schemes. Limiting overlap is key, there.
Honestly, the gauss, punisher, and pulsar are all pretty good. The cycler needs a bit of adjustment, but not much. The gauss is a joy to use (it's my primary memory as NC) and pretty well defined infantry combat for me in PS. I would be disappointed to see much change about that. I think the above weapons set excellent baselines for kill times against various armors and engagement ranges in Planetside.
Originally Posted by Sirisian
Nah makes sense. MA is actually a range weapon. One of my favorite guns was the Punisher which makes quick work of enemies at a range. Also rexo has more armor points allowing it to take 100 more damage which is just enough for the rexo to make an offensive. At short range though always bet on the HA rexo.
I thought the number of bullets and the time to kill was perfect. You could take a few shots and find cover. Get sniped and duck to heal without worrying about any long range instant kills. It really made having healing and engineering advantageous and in a way helped teamwork. If everyone had died two hits in front of you repairing them would be almost meaningless. That and it would remove most of the differences in the armor types except for the inventory. So the idea is to make healing and repairing a worthwhile activity.
I had the feeling HA was designed to be both offensive and defensive. It sounds like you want to make it a defensive weapon which really restricts its uses.
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I agree with you on all points.
Originally Posted by Tremadog
I think increasing the lethality of the weapons anymore would ruin outdoor combat. Rexo and Medical certs would be almost worthless if some unseen assailant can down you in two bullets in about half a second. Having something unleasant happen to you in a game without warning that you can't react to is generally considered frustrating. Here's an article in the TF2 blog thats does a better job of explaining my opinion than I do. http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2477&p=8 |
And you, as well.
Originally Posted by Aractain
I think a key problem with Planetsides design in general is focus on kills. Obiovusly the game didn't support anything else and that is the problem. If your big gun didn't kill lots of people nobody would use it.
Having such a limited scope for designing gameplay (it must kill and kill fast) is what ruined AA, artillery, BFRs etc etc.
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I would certainly be pleased if PS did a better job of rewarding roles and goals rather than simply kills. I think it can be done, and I hope they seek some input if they're having a hard time figuring out how to go about it. Rewarding roles and goals, and the teamwork that promotes, is one of the reasons I love TF2 as my multiplayer shooter of choice. Support classes are rewarded for supporting. Everybody's rewarded for objectives. It's great, and teams of random people will actually play to the objectives and support each other rather than trying to get the best killstreak on the server.
Originally Posted by I SandRock
Removed:
-Those silly caves
-The ability to cert into Adv med, engineer, heavy weapon, rexo and then some so easy. The grunt spec was too... cookie cutter? :P
- Walking for ages without a fight
- Jackhammer's sound. Make it something cute and friendly. I hated hearing that thing go off near me. I'd go into fetus position and cry like a baby just hearing it come nearer. SHA-BOOM SHA-BOOM SHA-BOOM SHA-BOOM. It's still the object of many of my nightmares
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I loved the jackhammer sound (even though I was a SA/support player, myself). It meant the cavalry was on its way.
Originally Posted by Hamma
I said this in another thread, but please remove FLAK. We aren't even using that shit anymore in this day in age.
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Flak is among my favorite weapons in Planetside. The burster alone had me considering defecting on numerous occasions. Oh, if only I could have hacked a burster corpse, as it were, and made my sparrow cert worthwhile.
As for me?
I want to see the terribly thought out AV MAXes scrapped and taken back to the drawing board. We've got what seems like the slowest projectile in the game with a lousy damage, we've got an indirect fire splash damage weapon system, and, honestly, I don't remember the Vanu AV that well, so it might have been alright or terrible.
I want to see most of the alien tech infantry weapons removed, and the alien tech support vehicles replaced with non-alien tech and brought into better balance with the ecosystem, as it were.
I want to see the decimator nerf removed. Make the space in my backpack and time switching weapons worth my attention again.
I want to see reaver hovering removed.
I want to see personal flight transport removed. I think I saw somebody mention here penalizing you for bailing out of an aircraft as the pilot. That could be a good call. Or maybe hike up the cert cost of reavers and mosquitoes, so they're not considered personal transport over air superiority craft.
I want to see merit pre-reqs removed. The game on release meant that anybody could take a new character on a spin through the tutorial and in 20 minutes (if they already knew what they were doing) have that character able to pick up any one cert they wanted. That's a selling point -- the first session you log in, there's nobody out there who has equipment you're not allowed to have, if that's what you want.
I want to see LLUs removed. The capture the flag mechanic takes me out of the war mindset, and puts too much of the focus on one guy and maybe the vehicle he's riding in. I'd much rather defend a position.
I want to see musical bases removed. Give the defenders the motivation, ability, and time to put up a fight instead of capturing the base you just left.
2011-02-16, 05:57 PM
Linear Mode
