Is Squad Leader / Commander a class unto itself?

[Malorn]

Something I've been trying to sort out and I'm hoping Matt or T-Ray might be able to answer this one...

Is this "Squad Leader" and "Commander" trees we are hearing about a class
OR is it a set of abilities that exists all the time but only activatable/usable if you are in fact a squad leader/commander?

If it is the latter, then how does that work for "Commanders" who are commanding a lot more than just a squad. Is it tied in with outfits such that each outfit has a certain number of commanders to contribute to the game? Is it for platoon commanders?

I can see it going either way so i'd be nice if one of you could answer it

BTW, I like the idea of gating commanders by outfits/size of outfit and/or platoon leader status, though I like outfit better since it allows all outfits to participate and not just large outfits.

[basti]

ITs part of each class. But you would know that if you would have read the twitter devchat...

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by basti

ITs part of each class. But you would know that if you would have read the twitter devchat...

To be fair, if Bags or Lunarchild hadn't slogged through that mess, I wouldn't have, and couldn't fault anybody else for not.

I don't have a twitter account, for one, and for two, the format doesn't lend itself to legibility very well when there are lots of simultaneous conversations on the same hashtag.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Something I've been trying to sort out and I'm hoping Matt or T-Ray might be able to answer this one...

Is this "Squad Leader" and "Commander" trees we are hearing about a class
OR is it a set of abilities that exists all the time but only activatable/usable if you are in fact a squad leader/commander?

If it is the latter, then how does that work for "Commanders" who are commanding a lot more than just a squad. Is it tied in with outfits such that each outfit has a certain number of commanders to contribute to the game? Is it for platoon commanders?

I can see it going either way so i'd be nice if one of you could answer it

BTW, I like the idea of gating commanders by outfits/size of outfit and/or platoon leader status, though I like outfit better since it allows all outfits to participate and not just large outfits.

I'm guessing Squad Leader isn't a tree. It's probably Commander, which has some certs that give you extra options if you're the squad leader of your squad (like squad spawning, etc.).

Likewise, I don't think outfits "contribute" commanders. Again, it's probably simply a matter of "If I'm a commander, and I have the certs to generate a mission, it shows up as higher priority to my outfit than to people not in my outfit."

[Draep]

I imagine there may be several command subtrees. One for squad leadership, one for outfit leadership, one for faction leadership, one for platoon or larger size maybe?

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Draep

I imagine there may be several command subtrees. One for squad leadership, one for outfit leadership, one for faction leadership, one for platoon or larger size maybe?

I suspect the focus won't be on *what* your leading, but the benefits you can offer to whatever you're leading.

It seems silly to me to think that an "outfit leader" can give missions to his outfit, but not to his squad. Or, perhaps more telling, that a "faction leader" can give missions to everybody, but they don't show up for his outfit.

Etc.

There will probably be some functions that only work at one leadership scope or another. Squad spawning, for instance, won't apply to your outfit even if you're the top guy. It's squad spawning, not outfit spawning.

But, more generally, I suspect that where functions apply to more than one scope, there won't be "scope-specific" certifications for that function across different "scope-centric" trees, or, perhaps more specifically, there will be scope specific certs that form their own tree for that function.

[basti]

Originally Posted by kaffis

To be fair, if Bags or Lunarchild hadn't slogged through that mess, I wouldn't have, and couldn't fault anybody else for not.

I don't have a twitter account, for one, and for two, the format doesn't lend itself to legibility very well when there are lots of simultaneous conversations on the same hashtag.

I completly agree. Thats why i planned to do that, but Bags, Lunar and gry just beat me to it.

[Draep]

I imagine at launch outfit leaders will be skilling up pretty hard in leadership at the cost of leveling up combat skills, making kind of a leadership class by accident, at least for a time. I plan on doing so, using only my pistol and the urgings to my troops.

[Talek Krell]

They've stated that any class can be a squad leader, and that what benefits they bring to their squad are based on the class they choose. Other than the example where higher level leaders can make larger scale missions with bigger rewards I don't know anything about Outfit leader though.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by basti

I completly agree. Thats why i planned to do that, but Bags, Lunar and gry just beat me to it.

It only took two browsers, five tabs, and two twitter accounts.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by basti

ITs part of each class. But you would know that if you would have read the twitter devchat...

I did read the twitter devchat, and you should know by now that I absorb that sort of stuff quite well. I didnt' see anything in there about it.

If you could cite the quote that would be a lot more useful than jabbing at me for missing one of a hundred twitter messages. Thanks.

[Malorn]

Found the answer in Bag's Twitter transcript. I did indeed miss a tweet, ironically the one I was interested the most in.

Question: Is Commander or Squad leader going to be a role as such? Or are you command certs going to carry over if you play a medic?
Higby: You can be a squad leader as any class, you get some awesome passive perks and coordination tools.

He didn't answer the commander part of my question however.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Draep

I imagine at launch outfit leaders will be skilling up pretty hard in leadership at the cost of leveling up combat skills, making kind of a leadership class by accident, at least for a time. I plan on doing so, using only my pistol and the urgings to my troops.

They said there are no personal outfit skills, because of the case of what happens to a large outfit whose leader quits. The outfit itself will have a cert tree.

Originally Posted by Malorn

He didn't answer the commander part of my question however.

We don't even know if a 'commander' will exist in a meaningful capacity.

[Crator]

From: Planetside 2 Information Thread

How will the Command System function? Commanding is not based on command rank like in Planetside. Rather commanding is based upon a cert tree within all of the other certifications. In order to be a deeply specialized commander you need to give up some other perks. Also, squad leaders and commanders will be able to create “missions (think quests from an RPG) that average players can follow in order to receive bonus experience. The orbital strike is making a return.

[sylphaen]

I suspect PS2 will work like BF2142 with squad leader related unlocks:

e.g.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_2142#Unlocks

SLSB (Squad Leader Spawn Beacon) - Allows squads with 2 people or more to spawn on the beacon via drop pod instead of the squad leader. Great to place on the enemy titan for quick reinforcements. However, the enemy can destroy it.

RD-4 Otus - Floats around the squad leader and shows squad members the location of nearby enemies. (Uses the same diamond as the NetBat system) Only squads with 3+ members can use this.

SD-8 Accipiter - Floating gun turret that targets enemies in the squad leaders radius. Uses the squads NetBat info to find and target enemies. Only available to squads with 4+ members.

I guess PS2 will have a time consuming unlock system (i.e. some things can be unlocked with Xp while the rest will cost eve-style TIME). For the commander stuff, you will need the cert AND might be forced to have a certain amount of squad/outfit member before you are allowed to use the leader bonuses.

We all know that some people will love to fight for that leader position to get personal benefits from their "dedication" to the team. Before everyone was CR5, PS was full of drama with people fighting to be squad leader and work towards the OS machine/CR spam bonuses.

If it's the same kind of parallel skill-up (i.e. earning BR unrelated to earning CR), you can bet some people will do everything they can to get squads up just to farm CR (or the PS2 equivalent system) in order to get personal benefits/status out of it.

Leader benefits should be team only IMO. They should unlock things for the team, not individuals.

Anyways, I went on a tangent and we'll have to wait & see to know how the devs will implement this.