Freemium or cash shop?

[raykor]

I think the freemium business model is a very fair way to implement a free-to-play game. It is essentially an endless trial that lets you play for free but locks certain features of the game for the “premium” players who choose to pay a traditional monthly fee.

(In a game like Planetside 2, that might include things like: limiting how far into a skill tree you can progress; lowering the speed at which skills advance; not allowing you to lead a squad or outfit; locking certain armors, vehicles, or weapons; that sort of stuff.)

Games are not charities: if you pay nothing you can still get a lot of the features but ultimately the goal is to convince you that the game is worth subscribing to.

I don’t like the cash shop business model; it inevitably feels like they are trying to nickel-and-dime players. No matter how carefully a company tries to implement it, there is always the very real likelihood that they will end up “selling power”. It also puts the developers in a horrible catch-22 in which they need to offer items that players will want to buy or face financial failure.

[EASyEightyEight]

Cash shop for aesthetics. Subscription for faster advancement and other small, beneficial, non-exclusive perks.

I think that's the model they're considering anyway.

[Sirisian]

To see the communities current feelings I'll direct you to this thread. My post categorized everyone's viewpoint making it easy to pull out data.

That's the problem of trying to describe things with a poll. People's feelings towards this are varied.

[Zulthus]

Freemium, cash shops are bad. Why can't we just have a normal game where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by skill?

[raykor]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Freemium, cash shops are bad. Why can't we just have a normal game where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by skill?

Well yea, personally I would have preferred a normal subscription game but that is out of the question so there is no point including that as an option.

[dsi]

Cash shop is a slope made out of ice and industry grade lubricant. Just stay away please, don't want to see PS2 slip and fall.

(In a perfect world the cash shop would only contain cosmetic items, but we all know how that goes...)

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Freemium, cash shops are bad. Why can't we just have a normal game where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by skill?

Because the way the skill tree system is described, it's roughly based on time played, not how well you can place a shot, though it certainly should help. They were pretty distinct on wanting to allow players that don't have as much time to play as others to at least keep developing skill/power wise around the clock.

Subbing to speed up the process is just a good incentive. Pure aesthetics are good and all, but a lot of people will only pay for stuff that will help them in some way. It's about getting an edge somewhere, but it's not an exclusive edge. Freebies can still gain all the same things, it just takes them a little longer. When it comes to buying skills, I would hope that's just really unlocking skills that have prerequisites that need to be met first otherwise. Like needing (examples) [increased healing] and [adrenaline boost] before one can pick up [revive.] The revive skill could be unlocked via the cash shop, but the player still has to devote training time to making it worth while. Freebies will just have to unlock and train [increased healing] and [adrenaline boost] before they can access and work on [revive.]

What I'm getting at is: just because there's a cash shop doesn't mean SOE will be so irresponsible they'll be dropping 2x firepower power-ups that last for 24 hours for $5 a pop. While it might bring in big sales, it will effectively kill the population. SOE isn't a pack of drooling baboons with fabulous hair, I think they'll treat the cash shop with respect to player acceptances and expectations.

Besides, what's so wrong with a cash shop that sells aesthetics such as aviator sunglasses, handlebar mustaches, and bitchin' afros in a B2P game?

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

And what's so wrong with a cash shop that sells aesthetics such as aviator sunglasses, handlebar mustaches, and bitchin' afros in a B2P game?

Yea, wouldn't that be nice. It'll start out like that. Then come the xp 'potions', then the +5 health armor, then the better weapons. We all know it, don't deny it, they will eventually sell power no matter how much they deny it. It could be a few months, a year, maybe two, but it'll happen.

Here IS an example of selling power:

You have lets say, the Mini-Chaingun.

Chaingun 1 - Normal range, damage, COF.

Chaingun 2 - Bought from shop. Quarter range, Double damage, higher COF. (Example of 'trade-offs') You just sold power to anyone who uses it indoors.

[dsi]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Because the way the skill tree system is described, it's roughly based on time played, not how well you can place a shot, though it certainly should help. They were pretty distinct on wanting to allow players that don't have as much time to play as others to at least keep developing skill/power wise around the clock.

Subbing to speed up the process is just a good incentive. Pure aesthetics are good and all, but a lot of people will only pay for stuff that will help them in some way. It's about getting an edge somewhere, but it's not an exclusive edge. Freebies can still gain all the same things, it just takes them a little longer.

And what's so wrong with a cash shop that sells aesthetics such as aviator sunglasses, handlebar mustaches, and bitchin' afros in a B2P game?

Eve Online's skill system is amazing, no complaints if they rip it directly (and maybe lower the time scales)

Eve Online's skill system is amazing because veterans are veterans, but newbies can be bought up to speed and be made battle ready within a month (this is where "lowering the time scales" would come into play of course)

Paying to increase skill learning rate is hardly any different from classic Pay 2 Win.

If the cash shop only sold cosmetics, it'd be fine. But people always get screwed by cash shops with P2W so it's easier to say "stay away" than "do exactly this to succeed where others have failed". (TF2 gets away with it because there are so many other ways to obtain weapons) (and the comment above mine is a perfect example of "screwed by cash shops")

[EASyEightyEight]

You guys played some really $#!%%& F2P's if you feel they WILL start selling hard power, like a "trade-off" MCG.

I'm seriously doubtful it will ever get to that point unless the game for whatever reason starts to tank.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

You guys played some really $#!%%& F2P's if you feel they WILL start selling hard power, like a "trade-off" MCG.

I'm seriously doubtful it will ever get to that point unless the game for whatever reason starts to tank.

They've already said they'll be selling 'trade-off' weapons.

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

They've already said they'll be selling 'trade-off' weapons.

Link? Can't make the claim without backing it up, and even if you can, it won't be a huge difference. Why were you talking like this wasn't already mentioned, by the way, using a speculative future tense?

And actually... they are probably under review and may never make it in later anyway. I don't see the point in allowing us to buy "trade-off weapons" if I can just modify my weapon to perform the same way anyway. Unless by trade-off they mean I simply use a different looking gun, but it's still essentially the Cycler? Falls in line with aesthetics, no?

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Link? Can't make the claim without backing it up, and even if you can, it won't be a huge difference. Why were you talking like this wasn't already mentioned, by the way, using a speculative future tense?

And actually... they are probably under review and may never make it in later anyway. I don't see the point in allowing us to buy "trade-off weapons" if I can just modify my weapon to perform the same way anyway. Unless by trade-off they mean I simply use a different looking gun, but it's still essentially the Cycler? Falls in line with aesthetics, no?

http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...051#post590051

Have a read. Don't know where you've been.

[raykor]

Crap. I honestly wasn’t trying to start yet another “selling power” or “pay-to-win” discussion.

That POSSIBILITY is only ONE of the MANY reasons why I personally don’t like cash shops. I doubt anyone thinks SOE will be dumb enough to blatantly do this but the problem is that whether an item constitutes a purchased advantage is a VERY SUBJECTIVE and apparently a very heated topic.

SOE could easily avoid all this controversy and still offer a free-to-play title by simply choosing the freemium business model.

[Marth Koopa]

Originally Posted by dsi

Eve Online's skill system is amazing

HELL NO

Watching clocks count down and being able to do NOTHING to make it go faster is EXTREMELY STUPID.

My dude learns how to operate railguns at the same rate whether or not he actually uses them? That's really stupid. I should get large bonuses to my training by actively participating in combat with railguns.