Not Another Teen Tank Debate

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Any particular reason why the gunner shouldn't control the secondary turret? I can't see any balance reasons for disallowing it that would be any different from drivers controlling the main gun.

Allowing the driver to release the gun is a good idea, but I think this could be qualified as a "driver controls the main gun, gunner controls secondary gun" with a thread post to clarify further, including that when the driver released the main gun, they did not gain access to the secondary gun.

It seems like the secondary turret idea has probably been developed pretty heavily already, so I didn't make any options other than the PS1 option that wouldn't include it.

I don't feel like debating since this isn't a debate thread. View the 10 other threads on the subject. This has been discussed in detail already.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Azren

Is there really a need to restart this topic? We had two very long debates on this before. Most people agreed that PS2 plans blow in comparison to PS1. Some people suggested the compromise to have the driver get the secondary gun (like Magrider in PS1). Some (very naiive) people suggested to wait for beta and see how it is. Other (more experienced) people told them this is bs, since any key element what makes it to beta, stays.

That's about it, not much else worthwile input was given on the topic. Same will happen here. PS1 style supporters are the majority.

Btw to stay on topic, I went with PS1 style in the poll.

There is no reason to debate this again, which is why I said 2 times (3 if you count the title) that this is not another debate.

This is purely intended is a poll. The devs are still considering putting in an option that allows the driver to allow the gunner to control the main gun. I figured that the timing was good for a poll.

PS1 style supporters are far from the majority. Currently they have more votes than any other option (7), but they are almost neck in neck with the current PS2 method supporters (6) and the people who want the driver to control the secondary gun instead (also 6).

I think the real indication (and what I was trying to find indicate to the devs with this poll) is that the vast majority of people would prefer there be some kind of option for the gunner to control the main gun.

Add up poll options 2, 3, 4 and 5, which all have some form of gunner controlled main gun and you have 18 votes.

So that's technically at least 18 to 6 against gunners having no option for controlling the main gun. Now THAT is a majority. Three quarters of the votes.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I don't feel like debating since this isn't a debate thread. View the 10 other threads on the subject. This has been discussed in detail already.

Fair enough, I just wasn't understanding. I was more seeking clarity, but you are entitled to your opinion, so no need to go into it if it's going to turn into a needless debate.

[SKYeXile]

gonna love to see how easy the mag is to drive while gunning. ...if the thing even has a turret...so far it looks like it does not...

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Raymac

I think there should be a poll answer that is the current Planetside 2 system with option to add a 3rd passenger so you have 1 dedicated driver and 2 dedicated gunners.

I concur.

[Talek Krell]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

gonna love to see how easy the mag is to drive while gunning. ...if the thing even has a turret...so far it looks like it does not...

Higby confirmed, the main gun is fixed forward.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I concur.

There should also be an option for tanks to be driven by remote control and for the main gun to be fired by an AI, like a TF2 sentry gun.

Until we hear any indication that the devs are even REMOTELY thinking about having more than 2 people in an MBT, I don't feel it's worth putting the option in this particular poll.

I only put the PS1 style option as an extreme example and because it made some sense as the ultimate contrast to the new system. Every other option I put is a middle ground option of compromise between the old and the new.

This isn't about what your ideal driver/gunner relationship is. This is about how far between the PS1 and the current PS2 system you would prefer to see the final PS2 setup to be.

It seems that most people want some form of the gunner controlling the main gun. This is what I am looking for, the majority common ground.

The devs said in the Q&A that they were still considering allowing an option for the gunner to control the main gun in some way. What I think this poll already shows unequivocally is that the majority of people in this community want this option. The devs may not use each persons ideal implementation of the option, but something is better than nothing.

If the devs stick to the plan they have currently laid out, drivers will be the only ones to ever control the main gun. I'd prefer any of the alternatives that give the gunner a chance to control it.

I'd actually prefer the PS1 system to the new system, I just know that it's never going to happen.

[krnasaur]

Shit, wheres the option for 4... driver, gunner, loader and commander

[Raka Maru]

Like in the other tank threads... This is not about realism. This is about the player who decides to cert a tank. He doesn't want to JUST be a taxi and he doesn't want to be STUCK with the alt (less powerful) gun.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

Higby confirmed, the main gun is fixed forward.

what the what.


VS:


much?

think better hit like a freight train and drive all sorts of crazy speeds in reverse and sideways.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by Raka Maru

Like in the other tank threads... This is not about realism. This is about the player who decides to cert a tank. He doesn't want to JUST be a taxi and he doesn't want to be STUCK with the alt (less powerful) gun.

That is exactly what the devs are thinking and that is exactly what so many disagree on. I do want to be only "taxi" and I do want to put all my time/points into upgrading the gun on my "taxi", because that is what sets PS aside from all the rest.

Bah, at any rate MBTs will be do-it-all vehicles now thanks to the very low number of vehicles they are implementing. I can imagine how this got decided on on one of their conferences; A: "hmmm, so we have 9 months to do this thing from zero, and we do not have the resources to do everything we had in PS, what should we scrap first?" B: "Ah I know, how about mixing all vehicles into one, so we do not have to code all those different behaviours" A: "Oh yea, good one Johnny". So now we have instead of buggies the MBT with AI turret, we have instead of Skyguard the MBT with AA turret, we have instead the MBT the "all-new-revolutioneary" MBT with AV turret. All of these also means that the MBT will have paper armor (if not on day one, very soon for sure).

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Until we hear any indication that the devs are even REMOTELY thinking about having more than 2 people in an MBT, I don't feel it's worth putting the option in this particular poll.

I only put the PS1 style option as an extreme example and because it made some sense as the ultimate contrast to the new system. Every other option I put is a middle ground option of compromise between the old and the new.

This isn't about what your ideal driver/gunner relationship is. This is about how far between the PS1 and the current PS2 system you would prefer to see the final PS2 setup to be.

You forget that 1/3 of PS1 tanks had 2 gunner seats. And they could think about it if we asked. One of the upsides of no animations getting into the vehicle is the number of seats in a vehicle is trivially easy to alter.

Course the fixed forward gun of the mag makes does throw a monkeywrench into all of this. It cannot possibly have a gunner controlled main turret without being completely redesigned.

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

what the what. think better hit like a freight train and drive all sorts of crazy speeds in reverse and sideways.

BF2142 had a tank like that, alongside a regular tank. They hit mostly the same, but the hover tank was rather faster and much more maneuverable. I've no doubt they'll do something similar.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

what the what.

Magrider will be the same as it is now, just the two guns will be switched up. Actually I think that VS got the best of this change - hitting a tank as driver with a fixed gun will is much easier than hitting foot soldiers. Will have such a laugh at all those other MBTs who get stuck on trees and stones while trying to gun and drive at the same time.

[Graywolves]

I'd prefer to have a dedicated driver than someone who's running into trees because he's trying to aim and drive.

[MgFalcon]

Originally Posted by Azren

Magrider will be the same as it is now, just the two guns will be switched up. Actually I think that VS got the best of this change - hitting a tank as driver with a fixed gun will is much easier than hitting foot soldiers. Will have such a laugh at all those other MBTs who get stuck on trees and stones while trying to gun and drive at the same time.

It makes total sense on paper, I want to play the shit out of it in Beta though, from what I'm getting - is that the Magrider NEEDS to have ultra maneuverability otherwise it wont hit the "super-fast" prowler, and get obliterated from the vanguard's cannon.