Higgles on certs and progression

[Hmr85]

I didn't mean use them all at once like PS1. I meant I could have it all unlocked later down the road if I put in the time. Same as Eve, you could eventually have all the skills unlocked if you trained for it. It was just going to take you 20 years.

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by Firefly

"Higgles"? What the fuck? Are you a 14yr old girl?

It is possible....



I would assume that after looking at the SOE interview regards the payment model they are going for in MMO's SOE will go for the constant development and addition to the game to drive more income provided it is an initial success that is.

So Higgles any more info on which way the team is leaning?

[Baron]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Umm yea sounds like we'll be generating afew cert points or something per kill or support or stuff then then while offline they possibly generate at 1 per minute or so.

something like upgrading a weapon could cost like 100-1000 cert points.

Apparently this can also be sped up by spending resources as mentioned in previous articles.

Im not sure how the BR fully integrates with it, but from what iv herd some of the things would require a higher up battlerank to train or it was something like you can only train so many things per BR or something like that.

That's pretty accurate on how I see BR as well. the Devs mentioned that BR acted as a "cap" or glass ceiling on the cert/skill tree. An extreme example would be to prevent someone logging in on day one ..queue up certs/skills then come back in 6 months uber. So unlocks have two variables: 1) Cert Points, 2) BR requirement

[Hamma]

Firefly, lots of folks including T-Ray have been calling him Higgles on Twitter and other places. So he didn't just make it up for this thread

[AncientVanu]

Could someone please explain to the newcomer what exactly is that "offline training"? AI opponents maybe?

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by AncientVanu

Could someone please explain to the newcomer what exactly is that "offline training"? AI opponents maybe?

It means you'll train skills while offline, like in EVE. Look up their system if you don't know it.

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by AncientVanu

Could someone please explain to the newcomer what exactly is that "offline training"? AI opponents maybe?

In a time based cert training it means that the countdown will continue even when you are offline

[Figment]

Originally Posted by FriendlyFire

Using all of them and using all of them, at the same time, are two different things. PS2 will have a class system so we should never see the problems PS1 has with BR40s.

Considering you are not locked into a class, but can change at your whim at an equip term or next respawn, yes you can use it all at all times when the need arrises.

So it takes a couple lives or a term switch. That's not exactly a huge restriction, now is it? Which means it'll eventually be EXACTLY like BR40. Since sure, you can't fit a MAX in a rexo, but if you can open a term you can become one instantly when you need one.

The problem with having access to all is not that you can use all at the same time, but that you can at all times access a counter to what you are facing. A fight in PlanetSide 1 nor 2 will last for hours. Anything you can use within that time span is important for the outcome of the fight. When you simply CANNOT use it permanently, or not use it during ONE LIFE, is completely and utterly different and matters lots!

Truth be told, I don't consider anyone extremely insightful if they discuss balance on the basis of a single lifetime and single encounter in a respawning game.

[AncientVanu]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

In a time based cert training it means that the countdown will continue even when you are offline

Actually the whole concept of "certs" evades me but maybe I have to dig deeper to understand it all. I've played BF and COD and know that kind of skills and weapons unlocking, but this seems like something completely different.

[Roy Awesome]

Originally Posted by Firefly

"Higgles"? What the fuck? Are you a 14yr old girl?

I mean...his hair. I'll be a 14yr old girl for that hair in an instant.

[Coreldan]

I wonder if his wife calls him Higgles in the bed.. Then again I guess not cos the wife is probably a Higgles herself.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by AncientVanu

Actually the whole concept of "certs" evades me but maybe I have to dig deeper to understand it all. I've played BF and COD and know that kind of skills and weapons unlocking, but this seems like something completely different.

The certification system provided you with a limited number of points to spend on a certification tree. This allowed you to custom built your character by selecting groups of weaponry you were and were not allowed to handle. Higher up in the tree cost you more certpoints, which meant that you had to make choices to be a bit of a generalist, but not a specialist in much, or a specialist in several things and not a generalist.

This gave your character the freedom to set up your own custom classes, but these classes would not be able to cope with every specific situation. It meant you would typically only perform very specific roles as your certification did not allow you to work outside of them.

So for instance, you could go for piloting heavy aircraft, grab some heavy firepower like anti-vehicular and heavy assault, but then you'd have to give up your chance to get sniper rifles, advanced hacker or tank driver.




The difference with the new system is that you can pick a class that can cope with any specific situation, but can not use any and all combinations of the advantages you've unlocked in the cert tree at once. You can however over multiple classes: you can grab a light assault suit and a heavy tank, aircraft etc as long as you have the resources for it. But you could also go for being a sniper, infiltrator or MAX on the next life. In PS1, you did not have so much freedom to pick your gear upon next life untill you reached BR40.

In the new system, it sounds like you can be anything you want every life, but be restricted by the class' capabilities only.

[Mastachief]

Originally Posted by AncientVanu

Actually the whole concept of "certs" evades me but maybe I have to dig deeper to understand it all. I've played BF and COD and know that kind of skills and weapons unlocking, but this seems like something completely different.

No problem.

In planetside 1 (Planetside) the weapons, vehicles, support tools and armours required you to have certifications to be able to equip/use them.

Levelling in planetside was achieved through kills / base captures and (later) support actions which you earn XP towards Battle Ranks (br). Upon on gaining battle ranks you would be awarded a certification point to spend on certifications. *

Now say you wanted to fly an aircraft called a mosquito you would need 3 of these certification point to spend on the Mosquito certification. Once spent you could then launch you mosquito from the relevant Air/vehicle terminal.

Now in planetside 2 they are looking at different methods for you to earn these abilities to say fly these aircraft, one of which is that (similar to the EVE:online system) you set a skill training and that skill training takes say 3 days to complete in the background now if you are online playing the game the skill will train at 1x speed however if you are offline the skill will now train at 0.5x.

This is pure speculation at this point there can be boost to training at say 1.5x speed etc the idea is to encourage people to play. The certification may require you to spend resources on lets call it a skillbook (to rob an eve idea) resources earn through combat etc.


*in planetside 1 not all Battle ranks yielded a certification point due to various reasons you can look up or start a thread in the planetside 1 section

[FriendlyFire]

Originally Posted by Figment

Considering you are not locked into a class, but can change at your whim at an equip term or next respawn, yes you can use it all at all times when the need arrises.

So it takes a couple lives or a term switch. That's not exactly a huge restriction, now is it? Which means it'll eventually be EXACTLY like BR40. Since sure, you can't fit a MAX in a rexo, but if you can open a term you can become one instantly when you need one.

The problem with having access to all is not that you can use all at the same time, but that you can at all times access a counter to what you are facing. A fight in PlanetSide 1 nor 2 will last for hours. Anything you can use within that time span is important for the outcome of the fight. When you simply CANNOT use it permanently, or not use it during ONE LIFE, is completely and utterly different and matters lots!

Truth be told, I don't consider anyone extremely insightful if they discuss balance on the basis of a single lifetime and single encounter in a respawning game.

I am fine with Paper beating Rock, and Rock beating Scissors, etc. Am also fine with Paper being the best at being Paper, etc.

Individual Players will not win a 100 vs 100 fight by switching classes every time they die.

Maybe we are saying the same thing (?!,) being locked in to a class (even for that spawn) allows players to only be good at that one class till they die or until they switch at a Term.

[ThGlump]

Im expecting some sort of mix between unlocks and certs. You can unlock/train everything in some class but still use only limited set at a given time (selectable cert or equipment related). So even if you unlocked it all, you cant use it all at once.

Easily switching classes i see as a problem. Everyone will have access to everything, with no downside (after you train most from all). In ps1 those who had drivers certs pulled tanks etc, and those who didnt would be theirs gunners. In ps2 everyone will rather switch class so they can have their own tank, than to be someones gunner and use inferior gun.