IMO KillCam killing the Game

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

They don't teach anything you wouldn't already know or would teach you something rediculously situational.

Killcams helped you in other games because everyone could make their loadouts similar because there was no real class and the scale was small on tiny maps.

As the game is an MMO, interacting with other players is really important. So players actually SHOULD be encouraged to seek help from others.

I'm not going to freaking re-type what I did earlier about how it helped me specifically. You can go back and read it if you want. Don't try to tell me what it taught me.

Also, COD had a wide variety of loadouts unlike Planetside which has a vast majority in HA/AV/Eng/Med.

You're right though in that being an MMO, social interaction is important, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be ways for players to learn on their own.

EDIT: In a nutshell, this is a pitch perfect example of me and the killcam in MW2 where I'm The N00b and the killcam was The Vet. (We've all seen this vid, but it expresses my point)

[MpS]

Originally Posted by Duddy

I'd have to disagree with you here, many of the people I managed to convince to play Planetside were completely lost without me to guide them through what was happening. Sure nothing was difficult per-se (nothing you'd normally do anyway) but without the additional knowledge some peopel would spend their entire time in Planetside not knowing some of the basics.

This is true but a kill cam is not the way to go about introducing players into the game, there are much better ways to teach newer players the ropes of the game.

[Nobel]

Originally Posted by RadarX

This has obviously been a very controversial topic for some of you. We want you to know we are of course reading through all this feedback.

If I could delve further though, are there restrictions that would make the kill cam bearable for those who are very against it?

I think KillCams are a great idea for MOST situations, although they do break immersion, they help newer players enjoy the game more, which is really helpful.

Situations where they are more frustrating than helpful tend to be in A.) Sniper Roles and B.) Stealth Roles.

I would then propose, in order to make it bearable for these roles, make it if you are in an infiltrator class, you have no killcam. That way we can have our cake and eat it too.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Raymac

I'm not going to freaking re-type what I did earlier about how it helped me specifically. You can go back and read it if you want. Don't try to tell me what it taught me.

Also, COD had a wide variety of loadouts unlike Planetside which has a vast majority in HA/AV/Eng/Med.

You're right though in that being an MMO, social interaction is important, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be ways for players to learn on their own.

That's just it. In CoD you're like "oh this guy has this weapon with these attachments and these perks and he was positioned over there."

That's not going to help you if you're killed by an HA and you're a Medic or if Higgles is honest in that he wants every area to feel unique. Between even 3 continents there's too many places for you to be like "Oh I can sit here and get kills." People didn't learn to sit on walls on facilities to defend because of a killcam, they saw other people doing it, and sometimes too many people were doing it so people ended up on the ground or elsewhere anyways.

Players do have methods for learning on their own. We all did it without kill cams via theorycrafting and thinking over what is available, what might be most effective, and then testing it.

edit-- There's too much to do that is observed through seeing your own team while you're alive to actually learn something useful from someone using their own empire's weapons on their side of the fight.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Players do have methods for learning on their own. We all did it without kill cams via theorycrafting and thinking over what is available, what might be most effective, and then testing it.

edit-- There's too much to do that is observed through seeing your own team while you're alive to actually learn something useful from someone using their own empire's weapons on their side of the fight.

It also taught me about how to aim better. (Remember the whole ballistics conversation we had a few minutes ago?)

Also, Planetside did have a steep learning curve. So the whole "kids nowadays are soft and we had to figure it out our own way" arguement is just a cop out. The more ways we can ease that learning curve, the better. Kill cams aren't the only way, but they are a good way.

[Hmr85]

I have been trying to stay out of this. But I think there needs to be a limit on killcams. What I mean is give new players the option to have killcam till BR 10. At that point you can either A keep your killcam on or B turn it off. Now with that said for Veteran players returning to the Game. SOE ought to give those players the option right from the start to opt out on whether you want your killcam on. Some players just do not want other people seeing what they are doing. How their load out looks and so on. I should have the option to keep other players from seeing my tactics.

[ShadoViper]

Originally Posted by Raymac

It also taught me about how to aim better. (Remember the whole ballistics conversation we had a few minutes ago?)

Also, Planetside did have a steep learning curve. So the whole "kids nowadays are soft and we had to figure it out our own way" arguement is just a cop out. The more ways we can ease that learning curve, the better. Kill cams aren't the only way, but they are a good way.

I enjoyed reading your defense for killcams and it's good that it helped you but im with also with graywolves and the other anti killcam fans on this as well.

While I will leave my final judgement for the beta before writing it out or getting "mad". I will say that I don't like killcams in general for me for three simple reasons. It breaks immersion, cheap/lame (cloakers for example) and It bothers me when I have to wait between loading watching crap I don't care about mashing the skip button (lol personal peeve).

Tl;dr

Not a fan of killcams but reserves final judgement on beta.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

I have been trying to stay out of this. But I think there needs to be a limit on killcams. What I mean is give new players the option to have killcam till BR 10. At that point you can either A keep your killcam on or B turn it off. Now with that said for Veteran players returning to the Game. SOE ought to give those players the option right from the start to opt out on whether you want your killcam on. Some players just do not want other people seeing what they are doing. How their load out looks and so on. I should have the option to keep other players from seeing my tactics.

Is your idea that once you hit BR10 you can turn off killcams for yourself and those you kill?

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Is your idea that once you hit BR10 you can turn off killcams for yourself and those you kill?

yes, that should be more than enough time for the newer players to learn. I posted this way way way back in this thread.

[Gortha]

Originally Posted by RadarX

This has obviously been a very controversial topic for some of you. We want you to know we are of course reading through all this feedback.

If I could delve further though, are there restrictions that would make the kill cam bearable for those who are very against it?

This:

Originally Posted by CidHighwind

...
To correct this problem, I would suggest this. A simple two option toggle in game. Each player has the option to turn off or on the ability to VIEW their own deaths, as well as the option to have others view their kills.

This makes everyone as happy as possible in this situation. Those that like to know will occasionally be allowed to see their deaths , but only by those who don't care if they are seen. I do recognize the fact that others might be affected by another players indifference, but in a unfair world, sometimes we need to compromise.
...

This:

Originally Posted by IronMole

Kill cam should not be in game - it's just a waste of animation/memory and bandwidth.

Keep it to how PS has it, rotating camera of death.

I am more for the second variant of the classic PS1 Deathcam. U see near perimeter and can wait for a medic.
If you want to make the waiting time for the players less boring, just let em do more as in the old Planetside. Give them Access to Equip-Loadouts, let em do more on the Map, let em use the chat, etc... i am sure u´ll have tome great ideas which shorten the respawntimer!

Please hear us and save the game from the Kill Cam

[ShadoViper]

If I could delve further though, are there restrictions that would make the kill cam bearable for those who are very against it?

...
To correct this problem, I would suggest this. A simple two option toggle in game. Each player has the option to turn off or on the ability to VIEW their own deaths, as well as the option to have others view their kills.

This makes everyone as happy as possible in this situation. Those that like to know will occasionally be allowed to see their deaths , but only by those who don't care if they are seen. I do recognize the fact that others might be affected by another players indifference, but in a unfair world, sometimes we need to compromise.
...

Hm.. That seems to be a pretty decent compromise that would potentially please both sides.

This has my vote if killcam has to be implemented.

[General M]

A toggle system simply will not work, believe me.

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by General M

A toggle system simply will not work, believe me.

It will for people like me who do not want other people seeing what I am doing. Yet still gives people who want to learn and or post you tube videos of the greatest kills volume 1 online the ability to do so. I can tell you everybody in my outfit who is a veteran players will have it toggled off also. The toggle off ability should block your killcam and that of your opponents.

[Gortha]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

It will for people like me who do not want other people seeing what I am doing. Yet still gives people who want to learn and or post you tube videos of the greatest kills volume 1 online the ability to do so. I can tell you everybody in my outfit who is a veteran players will have it toggled off also. The toggle off ability should block your killcam and that of your opponents.

w0rd!

I also think every PS Vet or generally experianced Shooter Gamer will de-activate the Kill-Cam if possible.
Just because of the only reason, it gives away too much Intel, Informationj
which can be awful for him and his mates.

And for those who see the Kill Cam as a Newbe-Training Video-Tutorial - even them, the Neebs will become Vets and will hate the Kill Cam for the unjustified INtel it gives away for free.

Kill Cam is Noobish.

[General M]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

It will for people like me who do not want other people seeing what I am doing. Yet still gives people who want to learn and or post you tube videos of the greatest kills volume 1 online the ability to do so. I can tell you everybody in my outfit who is a veteran players will have it toggled off also. The toggle off ability should block your killcam and that of your opponents.

So what happens if little Jimmy has killcam on and all the hardcore players (the ones who will probably kill you the most being the most involved and generally better) have their's toggled off? Unfortunately you can't have it both ways because that will basically make it harder for the new guys who have killcam on.