The denied reproductive rights of males.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Senyu

Are you implying financial status is a decideing factor on if they woman should have the child?

No, although for some women it is.

I don't really think the rest of what you wrote really conflicts with anything I said. My point is that whether a pregnancy is an easy experience or a tremendously arduous one, it doesn't change the morality of getting an abortion or not. I don't think you disagree with that.

[Fenrys]

I agree with the OP. If the father gives notice of being uninterested in raising a child sufficiently far in advance of the birth, he should not be required to pay child support. The mother has been warned, and at that point it is her conscious and informed decision to make about whether she wants to raise the child on her own or pursue alternatives.

[Baneblade]

Then the mother just won't tell the father until it is time to pay up.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by Fenrys

I agree with the OP. If the father gives notice of being uninterested in raising a child sufficiently far in advance of the birth, he should not be required to pay child support. The mother has been warned, and at that point it is her conscious and informed decision to make about whether she wants to raise the child on her own or pursue alternatives.

If the father gives notice of being uninterested in raising a child he should go get his fucking balls snipped and/or the woman should say "Then you're not putting your dick in my vagina". The father has been warned, and at that point it is the father's conscious and informed decision to make about whether he wants to get laid or pursue alternatives.

Seriously, guy? You want to put it all on the woman?

[Fenrys]

Originally Posted by Firefly

If the father gives notice of being uninterested in raising a child he should go get his fucking balls snipped and/or the woman should say "Then you're not putting your dick in my vagina". The father has been warned, and at that point it is the father's conscious and informed decision to make about whether he wants to get laid or pursue alternatives.

Seriously, guy? You want to put it all on the woman?

Right now it all is on the woman. I'm advocating for equality.

If the mother does not want the child but the father does, she can have an abortion, take a morning after pill, keep the pregnancy a secret and place the child up for adoption, etc... It's entirely her decision to make about whether or not the course of her life is drastically altered.

Men currently have no such options. If the father does not want the child but the mother does, then the father is doomed to pay child support.

Mothers have a way out. Fathers do not.
I think both should have a way out.

[Warborn]

The way out for men is to not have sex. If she gets pregnant and wants to keep the child, then it's game over. Your new job is being a father. Once the baby is born, its need for a good life outweighs your need to be a deadbeat. Equality doesn't come into it. We're talking about a baby that requires responsible adults to look after it at this point. Tough shit.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Warborn

The way out for men is to not have sex. If she gets pregnant and wants to keep the child, then it's game over. Your new job is being a father. Once the baby is born, its need for a good life outweighs your need to be a deadbeat. Equality doesn't come into it. We're talking about a baby that requires responsible adults to look after it at this point. Tough shit.

So the way out for men is abstinence, and the way out for women is feticide?

Why do they get to have all the fun?

[Warborn]

Feticide meaning abortions? If they wish. They're unpleasant to get though, so that's not a very popular method of avoiding having a child. Either way, yeah, as the embryo/fetus is a part of their body it's certainly their prerogative to have an abortion or not. How fortunate for them. Let us men curse our luck.

The realistic way out for men and women is proper contraceptive usage, and coming to an understanding regarding the consequences of a potential pregnancy prior to the act. Obviously neither of these are guarantees, but using condoms, birth control, and the morning after pill if the condom fails makes it highly unlikely that pregnancy will occur. I guess if a guy or gal truly wants to make the odds zero they can always have themselves sterilized through a vasectomy or tubal ligation, though.

Ultimately, the only free lunch is masturbation.

[Senyu]

Specifically in the case of the man wanting a child and the woman does not....there is no equal status. You can say the woman gives birth and the man takes the child for the rest of his life but that cant stand as equal payment for alot of people I'm sure. This is just one of those things that won't be equal.

[Senyu]

Originally Posted by Warborn

No, although for some women it is.

I don't really think the rest of what you wrote really conflicts with anything I said. My point is that whether a pregnancy is an easy experience or a tremendously arduous one, it doesn't change the morality of getting an abortion or not. I don't think you disagree with that.

I agree with you on the morality issue. But it isn't the only moral issue in the debate. It may have the most weight, but it isn't the only one. That's all I was implying.

[Warborn]

You need to rewrite what you're driving at as I have not found your point to be entirely coherent, and would dread misinterpreting your meaning.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by Fenrys

Men currently have no such options. If the father does not want the child but the mother does, then the father is doomed to pay child support.

If the father does not want the child he should A) get a vasectomy, B) cut off his dick, C) wear two condoms, and/or D) not have sex with a woman.

If a woman wants a child without the father, she has alternatives. If a man wants to have sex without impregnating his partner, he has alternatives. Fucking use them, and stop trying to make excuses. You're as bad as those fat motherfuckers who cry about OH BOOHOO I'M FUCKING FAT BECAUSE I EAT VALUE MEAL COMBOS AT MCDONALDS, SHAME ON THEM!

It's high time the whole lot of these limp-wristed namby-pamby whiners and gutless enablers grew a fucking spine, engaged their brain from Herp-derp mode to Join-the-rest-of-intelligent-life-on-Earth mode, and GOT WITH THE FUCKING PROGRAM.

[Fenrys]

Originally Posted by Firefly

It's high time the whole lot of these limp-wristed namby-pamby whiners and gutless enablers grew a fucking spine, engaged their brain from Herp-derp mode to Join-the-rest-of-intelligent-life-on-Earth mode, and GOT WITH THE FUCKING PROGRAM.

Yes, that is currently the popular belief to espouse, and struggles for equality are guaranteed to meet with opposition from the prevailing paradigm.

You know what else used to be popular?

Get your fat ass back into the kitchen, bitch, and make me a goddamn sandwich!

Get with the fucking program. No matter how fucked up that program may be. All the cool kids are doing it, so you should too.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by Fenrys

You know what else used to be popular?

Get your fat ass back into the kitchen, bitch, and make me a goddamn sandwich!

Maybe in some redneck trailer park. If my grandfather, a WW2 vet (mentioned strictly for age/date purposes) had ever said that to my grandmother, who was the epitome of the Southern Belle, she would have cleaned his clock with something blunt and heavy. And had his father (a WW1 vet, again mentioned strictly for age/date purposes) ever said that to his (my grandfather's) mother - who was the epitome of the hard-scrabble dirt farmer-woman - she would have cut his balls off and fed them to him for dinner.

Originally Posted by Fenrys

No matter how fucked up that program may be. All the cool kids are doing it, so you should too.

Abdication of personal responsibility is never cool and, in my mind, makes you both a burden/drain to society and in need of swift and violent euthanising. When these 'cool kids' grow up and enter the real world and the real work force, if the wheels haven't fallen off of their lazy/slacker's ideological wagon, they'll find out that the cruel, cruel world inspires emo kids for a fucking reason: because it's not nice.

And here, in the real world where us grown-ups live, if you put your dick in a woman's vagina and blow a load, there's a strong possibility that nine months later a little mini-me is going to pop out. And here, in the real world, where a lot of ignorant motherfuckers lack basic common fucking sense, life is harsh: we make you pay child support if you're not being a man. We make you take care of that kid or we take that kid from you. It's sad that we have to do these things, but I blame the basic mentality that you've showcased as being cool - the total abandonment of responsibility in favour of the pursuit of six minutes of hedonistic pleasure.

This mentality will NEVER be cool as long as taxpayers foot the bill for cocksuckers that can't take care of their business. Again, don't want kids? Man up, go gay, Oxford comma, or get fixed.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by Fenrys

Yes, that is currently the popular belief to espouse, and struggles for equality are guaranteed to meet with opposition from the prevailing paradigm.

Please, tell us more about the plight of the male gender and how our struggle for equality is crushed under the fist of the prevailing matriarchy.