Inventory and Resupply (Dropping Ammo)

[megamold]

tnx for the help graywolves

[EVILPIG]

Not sure about comparing this to PS1, as you could carry a massive amount of ammo. I'm not opposed to ammo drops, it's just a question as to who should do them. Seems it may even be something a squad leader should unlock, since he'd be deciding who should be getting ammo, though that then opens it up to any class. But, if it was a leadership ability, then you could only drop ammo if you are actually leading a squad.

Also, it didn't say either way, but how many boxes could you drop? That certainly has an impact.

[Skittles]

Originally Posted by Mastachief

In spec ops and gen holds all the time even with maxes using 50% of their inventory to carry spare.

I had similar concerns when i saw the magically ammo box but i'm waiting to try it as a lot of our planetside gameplay may yet not transfer to ps2.

Yes, I hope they're aware of the abuse ability of the ammo drop for situations like these.

Regardless, I dislike the ammo drop period. Its too BFish and is a major strike against adv-hackers, which was a major benefit at EQ terms and base storming in PS.

Which makes me question with the ammo dropping, AoE meds other cheesy things if there are even going to be hackable terms in a base or not? Its quite possible there wont be any EQ terms to hack. Which would possibly eliminate over-max usage within a base capture. Though we didnt see any in the demo makes me think they're arent even modeled yet in game.

[LZachariah]

The ammo pack did worry me (and I'm REALLY happy that, if they insist on putting it in, it be on the Heavy Assault character), but I don't think it will be game-breaking either way. I don't think it should work like BF, wherein you get infinite resupplies from an infinitely-deployable "bag of magazines." If they need to put it in, let it be that you have "one" bag of ammo, and it contains (for example) 4 resupplies, divided among however many people draw from it. Even that doesn't seem too great to me, but in the end, I think it will be a minor issue in what is otherwise going to be the greatest FPS game in history.

~Zachariah

[Shade Millith]

Originally Posted by Bags

Just to clarify, I asked higby about this on twitter and he said they may move it onto heavy assault instead.

Honestly, it's not what class that has it that's the problem. Its the shear amount of ammo that could come out of these things.

I don't want, from a single click, to have 20 guys resupplied to maximum ammunition. It's too easy.

At least make them run up to the bag, and take some time to get the ammo out.

And any possibility of infinite ammo bags is worrisome.


Looting corpses and sharing ammunition around actually encouraged teamwork. This doesn't.

[Rivenshield]

Originally Posted by Shade Millith

At least make them run up to the bag, and take some time to get the ammo out.

And any possibility of infinite ammo bags is worrisome.

Looting corpses and sharing ammunition around actually encouraged teamwork. This doesn't.

They seem to have dis-incentivized a lot of the old concepts that developed and encouraged teamwork, all right. Single man tanks, spawn on your SL... pull infinite ammo out your ass.....

Now, I *can* see a one-per-customer nanite healing/ammo station, to be set up be either, say, medics or combat engies respectively. You get one per respawn. If you want to get another, you have to run back to an equipment terminal. Once you drop it, the nanites have a certain amount of work they can do before they vanish. After five hundred HP get healed, or after ten mags for any weapon have been pulled, they vanish. Plop.

That encourages teamwork. That requires forethought. It gives something to attack and defend. It's Planetside.....

...not a bunch of 32 vs 32 FPS's being fought concurrently in the same large area.

Devs, are you listening? Give us logistics and supply! not fucking MAGIC!

[kadrin]

I would really not like to see Ammo boxes be dropped by any class. Managing your inventory and more importantly your ammo was one of the things I loved about Planetside over every other FPS. In Battlefield 3, I don't ever bother looking at my ammo, it's always getting refilled by teammates or myself, I'm not even sure I've ever ran out of ammo before in that game in my 400+ hours.

Planetside was a whole different ball game, especially with the way my friends and I played, operating behind the lines usually, dropping gens, grabbing towers, or just general harassment. The number of times ammo became a concern and we were scavenging from the dead or looking for the nearest terminal to hack, all the times we had to fallback from an engagement simply because we didn't have enough to win the fight, or wouldn't have enough left over to defend ourselves on our way back to resupply. Those were the best.

Holding that Generator room as your ammo count dwindled, your medics ran out of juice for the ressing and healing, medkits becoming scarce, glue guns going dry, using scavenged enemy weapons to keep you going, sharing what little ammo remained with your squadmates.

Loading a couple of wraiths or something with extra ammo/glue/grenades and hiding them with an Aegis to use as a sort of forward firebase to fall back to resupply from as you fight on the flanks of your enemy.

Assaulting continents with no bases, falling back to a tower and running in to grab ammo for your tank.

None of these intense moments would have been possible if we could have just dropped a magic box that solves everyones problems. It makes the game take a little more thought, makes people a little more careful, slows the pacing down a little instead of always in your face action, shoot your gun, keep shooting your gun, why aren't you shooting your gun, there's ammo everywhere and your gun should be shooting. If I wanted that I wouldn't be playing Planetside, I'd be playing any other random generic FPS.

[megamold]

ammo packs need to be balanced the right way, but adding ammopacks and thinking ps2 will instantly turn into bf3 is a bit overzealous dont you think?

lets just give it a go in beta and if its overpowered ask the devs to tone it down

imho ammo resupply is a vital part of (realistic) warfare, not just from a shooting standpoint but also from the logistics and tactics standpoint
i think it could be a real good addition to ps2 if balanced correctly

[StumpyTheOzzie]

While we're on the subject...

Has anyone here actually loaded a magazine?

If I have 120 bullets loaded into 4 magazines, that's 30 rounds in each. If I get the weapon ready to shoot I will have to cock the weapon once.

I then fire off 8 rounds and reload, I now have a mag with 21 rounds in it - think about it - which I've probably thrown on the floor, not in my pouch. Then I fire off 15 rounds. Now I have a mag with 21 rounds and a mag with 15 rounds and 2 mags with 30 rounds (one in the weapon). At no point after pulling the trigger would I need to re-cock the weapon.

see where I'm going?

Has anybody ever actually stocked a tank with 24 shells? Let me just tell you they don't come in boxes of 20 that one man can carry.

As someone who worked in military logistics for a while, let me just say that I like the idea if insta-fill ammo dispensers.

[megamold]

well higby allready said there would be a "common pool" ammo system, meaning the rounds left in the clip you throw out dont get thrown away but added back to the pool

maybe not making the ammo common pool would be a good way to balance ammo packs?

[Bags]

They are designing it for "the average fps gamer" and that gamer is not used to that. I am a compulsive reloader so I am against that.

[megamold]

yeah that is true, i'm a compulsive reloader myself

[Wakken]

I think i'd okey with ammo packs as long as they dont have infinite ammo to give everyone. Making it disappear when someone has taken from it, maybe have a few clips of ammo, a few nadas but thats it.

Or, skip the ammo pack completely and give is as a leader ability? 1 use only, limited ammo and long cooldown.

[Figment]

I feel it is a much better mechanic to actually WORK for your resupply. ie. either you have to go back and collect some ammo from a supply point: apparently Sunderer or Galaxy - still under the impression we need an AMS - or equipment terminal, OR you have to kill an enemy that is "compatible" with your certification and loot their backpacks.

Now, I still don't get why that's not possible. If backpacks are too much graphically, make a less demanding graphic, or like in PS1, have them deconstruct sooner if there are too many on screen.

Hell, I wouldn't mind if looting was only possible as long as the person you shot was laying on the ground as a corpse and had not respawned or had not been revived yet.

Consequence of getting looted before revive is obvious: you force the enemy to return to a supply point instead of laying around waiting for a medic and that's a tactical opportunity/threat and choice for both sides.

If unlocked sidegrades are a problem for this system, just only pass over those sidegrades you already unlocked on the own empire, OR better yet, just default it to the standard, unadapted weapon variant with no extras.


Dropping your own ammo is to me like cheating. It's like putting two APCs in Advance Wars next to eachother: they resupply eachother fully when they're both almost out of fuel (and can resupply other units endlessly). It's sometimes a bit silly.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Originally Posted by Figment

Hell, I wouldn't mind if looting was only possible as long as the person you shot was laying on the ground as a corpse and had not respawned or had not been revived yet.

Dropping your own ammo is to me like cheating. It's like putting two APCs in Advance Wars next to eachother: they resupply eachother fully when they're both almost out of fuel (and can resupply other units endlessly). It's sometimes a bit silly.

This.