Shields Replacing Armor - Good or Bad Change?

[Shade Millith]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Do not make assumptions about who I am or what I like without my explicit statements. Do not make assumptions about someone you're talking.

Then I guess I was wrong. I should change that statement to-

You're looking for something faster paced that I am in PS2.

I play Project Reality daily, the slowest and most penalising game on death and game speed that's out there.

I play EVE Online. If I lose my PVP Tengu, that's over 5 days of training lost, and probably 2-3 days of work to replenish my wallet (If I get good loot). I think that's quite a bit slower with more penalized. Just getting back home with my pod intact can take an hour.

[Redshift]

Just sounds like the old halo1 system, which is fine, i'm thinking more for big weps like sniper rifles, it used to strip shields and do over 50% health dmg so hiding and waiting for shields would not save you from another shot.

I voted 2nd option as i'd like to see MAX with armour not shields, and requiring an engineer to fix, otherwise they'll be easy to solo whore with

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Shade Millith

Then I guess I was wrong. I should change that statement to-

You're looking for something faster paced that I am in PS2.



I play EVE Online. If I lose my PVP Tengu, that's over 5 days of training lost, and probably 2-3 days of work to replenish my wallet (If I get good loot). I think that's quite a bit slower with more penalized. Just getting back home with my pod intact can take an hour.

EVE is not an FPS. Do not compare like for not like.

[Lokster]

folks need to remember that PlanetSide 1 was never "that" popular because it wasn't what the people wanted. Just because you happen to love a feature available in PS1 does not mean it's a winner. I thought I loved the health/armor system in PlanetSide 1 until I actually thought about it, and the concepts that oppose it.

It seems like the PS2 team is on top of this and will make a system that millions of people will enjoy .. not a few thousand.

We should all wait till BETA to decide this one ...

[Shade Millith]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

EVE is not an FPS. Do not compare like for not like.

And Project Reality isn't an MMO.

We were talking about death penalty, and you brought up game X as the "slowest and most penalising game on death and game speed that's out there". I countered with game Y.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Lokster

folks need to remember that PlanetSide 1 was never "that" popular because it wasn't what the people wanted. Just because you happen to love a feature available in PS1 does not mean it's a winner. I thought I loved the health/armor system in PlanetSide 1 until I actually thought about it, and the concepts that oppose it.

It seems like the PS2 team is on top of this and will make a system that millions of people will enjoy .. not a few thousand.

I dont think that was so much the problem of Planetside. I personally think it came down to few things:

1) Lack of marketing. As an avid gamer from Europe, I didn't hear about Planetside until 2009.
2) Subscriptions were non existant at the time, let alone on a shooter.
3) Bad post-launch additions such as BFRs etc
4) New genre, thus no existing fan/playerbase.

Overall the game was much ahead of it's time in many things, but it's mechanics were quite similar to what most shooters had back in 2003.

But yes, it's 2012 now and not 2003 anymore, we have to be very careful what kind mechanics we take from 2003. It's much like Bible translations (i study theology, cos the analogy for you guys would probably seem out of place lol) nowadays: attempt to translate the idea, not word to word exactly as it appears. Take the good things, but for the love of god modernize them so that the gamers of 2012 won't turn around as soon as they log in.

That said, I dont think the discussion of armor vs. shields has anything to do with old vs. new games, but I suppose we've shifted a tad off topic into pace of the game and stuff like that.

[DDSHADE]

I think that if players have regenerative shields - they should be able to be damaged just like on a BFR, where there is a weak spot to shoot.

Having armour underneath too, depending on class or "armour type" would be a good thing in my opinion, let medics heal armor along with health, to throw the two functions into one. This would be to keep the theme of a faster pace that most design elements in PS2 seem to be following.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Shade Millith

And Project Reality isn't an MMO.

We were talking about death penalty, and you brought up game X as the "slowest and most penalising game on death and game speed that's out there". I countered with game Y.

Neither is Planetside, not in any traditional sense of leveling and end game, which is the core gameplay of every mmo, ever. Planetside is simply an FPS, with lots more people than typical.

You can get pedantic and point to the technical meaning of the acronym, but it's meaning is different in terms of typical gameplay for the genre. The tag of mmo is simply something that serves marketing purpose in it's branding and saleability.

[WellWisherELF]

I don't believe for a second everyone saying how it detracts from the teamwork aspect. Everyone and their mother had both med and engi certed, so all this change is doing is removing the trivial aspect of healing/repairing yourself after every scuffle

[Capt Mytre]

I don't see it as a bad thing, as long as the shields aren't the main form of health. Say, you might have 20% of your total health being shields, that regen over time. The other 80% is armour, which can only be manually repaired. Same goes for infantry.

One exception would be a vehicle that has 80% shields, but due to the bonus of being able to regen the shield, its armour if very low, say 5-10%, meaning, once you get through the shield, the vehicle is pretty much gone.

EDIT: One thing I dislike is the shield glowing when you take damage. Just change it to sparks or something when you are damaging shields, which turns to blood spurts when you get through to their health.

[Shanesan]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Neither is Planetside, not in any traditional sense of leveling and end game, which is the core gameplay of every mmo, ever. Planetside is simply an FPS, with lots more people than typical.

You can get pedantic and point to the technical meaning of the acronym, but it's meaning is different in terms of typical gameplay for the genre. The tag of mmo is simply something that serves marketing purpose in it's branding and saleability.

He said MMO, not RPG. Planetside and Planetside 2 are VERY MUCH MMOs. Don't make a statement and nullify it in the same post. A MMOFPS is not a MMORPG just as a MMORPG should not be generalized as "MMO".

Edit: For clarification:

Neverwinter Nights is a RPG. Phantasy Star Online is a RPG. Everquest is a MMORPG.
Team Fortress 2 is a FPS. Crisis Wars is a FPS. Planetside is a MMOFPS.

[Shade Millith]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Neither is Planetside, not in any traditional sense of leveling and end game, which is the core gameplay of every mmo, ever. Planetside is simply an FPS, with lots more people than typical.

You can get pedantic and point to the technical meaning of the acronym, but it's meaning is different in terms of typical gameplay for the genre. The tag of mmo is simply something that serves marketing purpose in it's branding and saleability.

EVE Online and Planetside (1/2) share a eerily similar end game. Conquering and holding territory for resources with massive armies. The biggest part of both games revolve around this core concept.

Planetside 2 has leveling. Leveling up to gain guns or other abilities.

Planetside 2 has a massive, persistent world.

Planetside is an MMO. We can argue to whether it is a "FPS in the style of a MMO" or "MMO in the style of a FPS", but the short of it, is it's an MMO.

(Had all this written out better, but I freaking deleted it all, FML)

[Verruna]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Nearly everyone in PS had Engineering because they had to in order to fix their own armor. They could suck down medkits to heal, but they needed a BANK for the armor.

All the shield system does is take away the need for every soldier to have an armor repair tool with them. Do you really want to run around a corner and rep yourself during and after every engagement?

For the Engineers out there, do you really want your job to be Armor-Rep-Bitch for your squads? With so many people taking damage, that's all you would do. I know I would never play engineer if that was the case.

The Shield system is great. It replaces armor and essentially has the same effect as every person having their own armor repair tool. It streamlines the process and allows engineers to focus on combat & repping MAX & vehicles with a fair chance of getting to do some other combat and utility as well.

The old PS system was a good start and neat, but the PS2 system is clearly a step in the right direction to streamline things and make the class system manageable. They could give everyone an armor repair tool instead of shields but that would be tedious and slow down the pacing of the game.

When Smed said they took everything that sucked out of Planetside, this was one of those things. It's a clear improvement.

I like the way you worded all this, it changed my mind a bit. I can still see some *possible* major cons to regening shields though, but beta will spell it out more clearly for the small concerns i have.

[Dreamcast]

I think is great


Nothing more boring that seeing a sniper, shooting him...then having him hide for 20 seconds to repair armor and health....Im so glad shields and healing is gone except if your medic.

[PoisonTaco]

Here's an idea, how about make it so that your regenerating shield can break? If it gets taken down x number of times in quick succession your shield breaks until you either go to an equipment terminal or die.

EMP's being deployed to remove shields on the people under the AOE? Hell yeah.