Tribes F2P Business Model - PS2 Impact

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

So, you're in the FREE camp.

No, I'm in the "$10 for one item is way too much" camp. Who mentioned free?

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by Vancha

Their concern is not just the amount people are paying, but how many people are paying it. Think about all the children trying to persuade their parents to give up $10 for something to make their gun look pretty..."But the game developers deserve it!" isn't going to cut it. Think about all the strapped-for-cash students wondering whether to spend $10 on a pretty helmet, or half that on the newest indie bundle. What do you think is better value for money, an in-game ornament or multiple games?

So $10 for a few cosmetics is more offensive to you than 15/month in perpetuity? Starving students/children are keen on paying 180/year for current MMO's, why would they suddenly have a problem droping significantly less for something to make their avatar look the way they want?

The freedom to look how you want didn't exist in WoW for 6 years. I would have paid $20 bucks on top of my monthly subscription to make my warrior look the way I wanted back in the day. Instead I paid $15/month to, at times, look like a clown.

It's a free game. You pay nothing to play it.
If you want customization, pay up sucker.
$10 is not a lot of money to spend on a video game. An MMO no less.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

So $10 for a few cosmetics is more offensive to you than 15/month in perpetuity?

$10 for a few cosmetics isn't offensive to me (in fact, I suggested being able to get a few cosmetic items for $10 earlier in the thread). Hell, $10 for one cosmetic item isn't offensive to me, but I'd never consider buying it.

That's probably the disadvantage of F2P + cash shop. A subscription feels like you're paying for access to the game, 24/7 support, ongoing development, in-game GMs, server maintenance etc. Yet buying a hat just feels like buying a hat. It's a mandatory payment to support the game versus a voluntary payment to get something specific that you want. The motivation for each one is different.

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Starving students/children are keen on paying 180/year for current MMO's, why would they suddenly have a problem droping significantly less for something to make their avatar look the way they want?

Convincing a parent to pay $15 for the ability to play the game is easier to swing than getting them to pay 2/3rds of that for a single pretty gun. They will see far less worth in the latter.

As far as students, I'm pretty sure they aren't "keen" on paying $180/year for an MMO, it's just that they have to if they want to play the game. Still, it's not unusual to see students unsub or opt out of playing sub games due to the monetary requirements.

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

It's a free game. You pay nothing to play it.
If you want customization, pay up sucker.
$10 is not a lot of money to spend on a video game. An MMO no less.

"Sucker" probably isn't the word to use if you're trying to convince someone that $10 isn't too much.

I do feel like my point is somewhat being missed here though. It's not that $10 is extortionate (though, again, I could buy some great games for $10), it's that I think SOE will profit more from lower prices, which means more variety in game (more people will cosmetic items), cheaper prices for us and more money for SOE to improve the game with.

[Aurmanite]

The 'sucker' bit was just for effect.

Parents these days understand pay to play games. Explaining station cash to a parent isn't going to be any more difficult than explaining why you have to pay $15/month for the game you just paid $50 for at the store. Plus, if the kid is savvy they will just hit their parents up for a moderate one time purchase to get a lil station cash, rather than trying to go to the well for several smaller amounts. The amount of money isn't really the issue, it's about getting convincing the parent to use the credit card in the first place. Besides, kids these days can go out and buy themselves a prepaid visa with their allowance. It's 2012!

Really though, who gives a shit about the children. For every so many youngens there will be so many adults (and I use that term loosely) with disposable income that will be perfectly willing to spend money on this crap. Including me.

I'm all about getting the lowest price possible, but I'm not above spending money on stupid shit that has no real value. There's a lot of man-children like me out there.

[sylphaen]

I kind of concur. If they make a veteran's pack...

[ArmedZealot]

I'll pay for anything. This might seem a little kool aidy but the PS2 dev team has shown a great product that I would like to support. If there were a donate now button on the webpage I would have put money into it.

When an actual shop comes out I will buy just about any cosmetic item on there. Golden Codpieces, Sunglasses, Eyepiece/Patch, Vanu Party hats, NC dunce hats, and huge TR welding goggles. Especially if there is a Squirrel Nuts hood ornament. I'm one of the cash starved college students here too.

I'll likely pay to be a premium member too. Did it for Tribes:Ascend and haven't regretted it.

[RadarX]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

The 'sucker' bit was just for effect.

Parents these days understand pay to play games. Explaining station cash to a parent isn't going to be any more difficult than explaining why you have to pay $15/month for the game you just paid $50 for at the store. Plus, if the kid is savvy they will just hit their parents up for a moderate one time purchase to get a lil station cash, rather than trying to go to the well for several smaller amounts. The amount of money isn't really the issue, it's about getting convincing the parent to use the credit card in the first place. Besides, kids these days can go out and buy themselves a prepaid visa with their allowance. It's 2012!

Really though, who gives a shit about the children. For every so many youngens there will be so many adults (and I use that term loosely) with disposable income that will be perfectly willing to spend money on this crap. Including me.

I'm all about getting the lowest price possible, but I'm not above spending money on stupid shit that has no real value. There's a lot of man-children like me out there.

Station Cash cards are actually readily available in large chain retail stores across the US like Walmart. This model has proven effective in a number of games, and we are confident consumers will feel there is value in their purchase.

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by RadarX

Station Cash cards are actually readily available in large chain retail stores across the US like Walmart. This model has proven effective in a number of games, and we are confident consumers will feel there is value in their purchase.

I actually had "station cash card" in the post you quoted, but I couldn't recall if I had actually seen one or not so I edited it out. I could have been extra right...shazbot.

But again, screw the children. Someone else can think of the children, please god, someone else...think of the children.

[RadarX]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

I actually had "station cash card" in the post you quoted, but I couldn't recall if I had actually seen one or not so I edited it out. I could have been extra right...shazbot.

But again, screw the children. Someone else can think of the children, please god, someone else...think of the children.

Today's children are tomorrow's game designers. I'm just sayin'...

[basti]

Originally Posted by RadarX

Today's children are tomorrow's game designers. I'm just sayin'...

Wow, this depresses me a lot more than it should.


But yea, cash cards. Please make sure those Pro7 guys DONT put them anywhere near me, otherwise i end up being unable to pay my phone bills, means no internet.

[NCLynx]

I don't think "themed" content releases should happen. In the original they would come out with a couple of guns or a vehicle or two. Of course since not everyone can use anything they want at anytime now it'd have to be a little bit different. Maybe a new sidegrade/attachment each content release.

I feel like there is a cap # of vehicles/weapon that can brought into the game but content release of WHERE we use those vehicles and weapons could potentially be much larger.

Won't get into pricing because I'd like to see what their offer is first.

[Khellendros]

Perhaps a better model would be, instead of releasing a bunch of stuff for one class, to release one or two items for each class, so they all get something in that one update.

[Shade Millith]

Personally, I really like Tribes Ascend's F2P model. Everyone starts out with 3 classes, each one pretty effective, everything is gettable without paying money except skins, and there's no buying of power.

If PS2's F2P model is in this fashion, I'll be very happy.

[Timealude]

Originally Posted by Shade Millith

Personally, I really like Tribes Ascend's F2P model. Everyone starts out with 3 classes, each one pretty effective, everything is gettable without paying money except skins, and there's no buying of power.

If PS2's F2P model is in this fashion, I'll be very happy.

There is a certain buying of power, If you even want to stand a chance against jackels or against jugs or raiders as a tech you need to buy a thumper gun. I still feel that tribes is a pay to win game, as they dont balance there weapons very well. Thats where it will come down to most with PS2' side grades is how well the devs balance them. Dont let us down Higby

[Tasorin]

Having played Tribes Ascend for a while now I can tell you that if the SOE business model follows Hi Rez it's not going to be a bunch of people telling Higgles and Smed's "I thought you said it wasn't going to be pay to win more?"

Even if you play TA for a while if you don't purchase the VIP bonuses for Gold and XP you just extended your play time to achieve the same unlocks to factor of around 5 or 6. I originally purchased a VIP pass for TA when it was in a earlier Beta Cycle. 20 bucks wasn't that bad of a "Donation" to get some decent perks. I found that when I played without the benefit of the VIP XP and Gold bonuses I left more XP and Gold on the floor from the bonuses then I was making in a map, even when I would have a monster game on base defense.

This is where PS2 comes in and I cross my fingers and hope that Higgles and Smed's stay true to all the smack talk about PS2 setting the standard for AAA Titles using the F2P model. It's a slippery slope and selling packs that accelerate your rate of gain is fine and all, as long as it doesn't totally distort the time sink in favor of those who "pay" to reduce the unlock time sink. I really do hope that SOE sticks to look and feel upgrades in the Cash Store and its about customization that doesn't alter game play.

Premium Accounts paying a monthly Sub are the other layer to this topic as well. They are going to have to figure out how to reward PA's without unbalancing game play or the time sink to unlock and still return value for the monthly sub price.

As always, without having a real Beta Cycle yet, we don't know what we haven't been told or seen. I would bet my 401k that this topic is going to be discussed for quite some time well past live launch.