Gameplay: Rogue Regions

[Garem]

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Having it only be an occasionally accessible area would solve most of the issues I have with it.

It's not that you couldn't find a balance between balance and reward, it's that it would be too fine a line, which would take way more dev time to balance it than would be worth the return on overall gameplay value added.

If there is too much reason to go there, it detracts from the giant battles of the rest of the game. The very thing F2P is trying to solve, this system would hurt. Then again, if it weren't interesting enough to take players away from the fight, the region would be underpopulated and it would be a waste of resources to have developed in the first place, like the caves ended up being in PS1.

But putting it like an event would certainly work. For one thing, you could have the region used for it also be used for other events, such as PvE battle scenarios, where all three empires team up against ai controlled monsters. You would get a lot of use out of the region by using it for many events, without hurting the ordinary battles during non event times. The ordinary game wouldn't suffer and developer time wouldn't be wasted.

It just dawned on me- this balancing would/could actually be quite easy. Simply make the available resources or resource extraction rate be directly parallel to the number of players on the continent.

So if there are 100,000 units of W, X, Y, and Z resources with 100 players you'd have 150,000 units of those resources with 150. Or add a slight increasing return, thus incentivizing greater activity levels (100k with 100, 155k with 150, and 215k with 200...).

Anyways, what is it about Planetside that means it must at all times be a game with 3 factions against one another in balance? I'm somewhat confused at how that argument can get thrown around with no qualifications whatsoever! We need not be pigeonholed nor have creativity stifled with such a fantastic opportunity for game experimentation as we are afforded by a truly novel game like Planetside.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Garem

Anyways, what is it about Planetside that means it must at all times be a game with 3 factions against one another in balance? I'm somewhat confused at how that argument can get thrown around with no qualifications whatsoever! We need not be pigeonholed nor have creativity stifled with such a fantastic opportunity for game experimentation as we are afforded by a truly novel game like Planetside.

Planetside at it's core is a massive war. 3 sides are better than 2 for balance reasons, and a free for all just doesn't work for the kind of massive warfare that is at the heart of Planetside.

That isn't to say that Planetside has to be 3 sides fighting it out all of the time, but that is the core gameplay. Anything that creates a temporary diversion or a little variety from that is fine. Anything that damages that core gameplay on a long term is just going to dilute the game.

I don't have any problem with the idea, my only concern is how well it could live alongside Planetside 2's core gameplay. I mentioned that I would like to see something like a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. MMO, but I don't think it would work well as a massive scale warfare MMO.

As fun as parts of the idea sound, I personally would want to see how this enriched the core elements of Planetside before I'd think it would be good as anything more than an occasional event that the devs gave us for variety. Things like space or naval combat are ideas that could potentially directly build on the idea of massive scale warfare, while this idea leans more towards individuals and scattered groups.

More over, if this were meant to be a serious gameplay addition and not a little side diversion, it would have to be finely crafted and well balanced. There is a reason for grief points and having 3 distinct sides, and it's so that you always know who to shoot and and who you don't need to worry about. Planetsides 3 faction solution is not the only solution to this, but a region such as you describe would require similar balance to ensure that some actual interesting gameplay could occur, and not just a grief fest that wouldn't warrant the effort put into the region in the first place.

As a side thing for a bit of fun, it sounds alright, but for any serious implementation, it's just too different from Planetsides core. You would essentially be asking the developers to create two separate games at once, albeit with shared content.

[Garem]

Ha, sounds like we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I'll do my best to counterpoint. I'll split up your statements- this bugs some people for whatever reason; if you're one of them, my apologies.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Planetside at it's core is a massive war. 3 sides are better than 2 for balance reasons, and a free for all just doesn't work for the kind of massive warfare that is at the heart of Planetside.

Sure. Although this is also one of the weaknesses of Planetside. It's so balanced, there's never a "win" condition to achieve. You have to set goals that are small-scale, since you can't ever beat one side or the other.
However, just because this is different from Core gameplay, doesn't mean it won't work; EVE is actually doing the opposite these days, a 4-way war being added to a previously Rogue Region style game. It's not as popular, but that's because the Rogue Region gameplay is so involving and fun; and of all things, it's certainly Massive.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

That isn't to say that Planetside has to be 3 sides fighting it out all of the time, but that is the core gameplay. Anything that creates a temporary diversion or a little variety from that is fine. Anything that damages that core gameplay on a long term is just going to dilute the game.

I disagree! This is the reason we want, no, demand new content be added over time. They don't dilute the game (unless that content breaks previous content or balance, two concerns we've already addressed) at all, but enhance it by giving old players new opportunities and attracting new players to new kinds of gameplay.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

I don't have any problem with the idea, my only concern is how well it could live alongside Planetside 2's core gameplay. I mentioned that I would like to see something like a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. MMO, but I don't think it would work well as a massive scale warfare MMO.

I'm not sure why you think that. What is it about Planetside 2 that would make (1) the addition of strategy-game aspects and other massive scale MMOs with their (2) resource and diplomacy/social aspects game-breaking? For #1, Strategy aspects have have already been done in both FPS and MMO games alike: Nuclear Dawn, Natural Selection. For #2, non-regulated PvP and alliance frameworks have already been done too: EVE, for which we both seem to agree that we DO NOT want same scale regarding resource management.

If anything, I think the total opposite is true. Planetside 2 provides the game content in its Core form to make this more than possible, but perhaps the greatest medium for this sort of hardcore, nonlinear territorial warfare game with strategic 4x/Sandbox style gameplay.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

As fun as parts of the idea sound, I personally would want to see how this enriched the core elements of Planetside before I'd think it would be good as anything more than an occasional event that the devs gave us for variety. Things like space or naval combat are ideas that could potentially directly build on the idea of massive scale warfare, while this idea leans more towards individuals and scattered groups.

Totally agree. Core development comes first. I'm a big proponent of the Hedgehog Principle.

Edit: Adding credit, Good to Great by Jim Collins (a phenomenal book on business/leadership and visioneering)

However, like my previous statements, I don't see anyone else in the gaming market even attempting to develop something like this. This is a natural progression. This could be, or should be, the next big thing.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

More over, if this were meant to be a serious gameplay addition and not a little side diversion, it would have to be finely crafted and well balanced. There is a reason for grief points and having 3 distinct sides, and it's so that you always know who to shoot and and who you don't need to worry about. Planetsides 3 faction solution is not the only solution to this, but a region such as you describe would require similar balance to ensure that some actual interesting gameplay could occur, and not just a grief fest that wouldn't warrant the effort put into the region in the first place.

Well, griefing wouldn't even be an issue. Griefing requires that there be a reasonable degree of safety. You can't get griefed in EVE's Nullsec- it's Nullsec. The point is that you're either a friendly or you're in a place where you shouldn't be, and a salvo of lasers and cannon fire are to be expected.

If you don't like or don't follow the EVE comparison, think about it like a Starcraft Free-For-All. Anyone can team up with anyone else, or fight anyone else. Of course, in Starcraft, death is death; in PS2, you don't have to quit the game, you just start from scratch elsewhere or with whatever bits and pieces your poorly chosen adversary left behind.

So the balance if sides you see in Core gameplay isn't there, and that's exactly the point. Winning a battle over territory means even more than it ever did before. Your barracks is destroyed? At least it's better than having an enemy steal it for a spawn point. Maybe you were the one who destroyed it; Scorched Earth is a bitch.

Here's another example. Say the TechHead Outfit of the Vanu needs some Alphadite ore, and the UnusuallyCruel Outfit of the TR has Alphadite but needs their Gamma-Iron. They both need Deltanium... but the massive Blacksky Security Alliance of TR and NC Outfits holds the only good resource nodes to the south... so they've got to buy out one of the Blacksky member outfits to defect, following it up with a fleet of Liberator bombers covered by Mossie air fighters, both supporting on the ground by an amphibious Magrider assault.

Talk about amazing new opportunities for battle that never existed before!

Originally Posted by Xyntech

As a side thing for a bit of fun, it sounds alright, but for any serious implementation, it's just too different from Planetsides core. You would essentially be asking the developers to create two separate games at once, albeit with shared content.

Totally agree. This is a very, very large proposal. First things first. But PS2 and its Dev Team can do this, and moreover, I'm not sure anybody else can.